Government Operations on September 21, 2026

0:42 GOOD AFTERNOON.

0:43 FOR THE RECORD MY NAME IS

0:44 GABRIELLE CLUB AS A DISTRICT

0:45 ONE COUNCILOR AND I'M THE CHAIR

0:47 OF THE BOSTON CITY

0:47 COUNCIL COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT

0:48 OPERATIONS.

0:50 TODAY IS SEPTEMBER 21ST 2026.

0:53 THE EXACT TIME IS 209.

0:55 THIS HEARING IS BEING RECORDED.

0:56 IT IS ALSO BEING LIVE STREAMED

0:59 AT BOSTON.GOV/CITY COUNCIL DASH

1:01 TV AND BROADCAST ON XFINITY

1:03 CHANNEL EIGHT, RCN CHANNEL 82

1:05 AND FIOS CHANNEL 964.

1:08 WRITTEN COMMENTS MAY BE SENT TO

1:09 THE COMMITTEE EMAIL AT

1:12 CARGO@BOSTON.GOV AND WILL BE

1:13 MADE A PART OF THE RECORD AND

1:14 AVAILABLE TO ALL COUNCILORS.

1:15 WE HAVE GOTTEN CONSIDERABLE

1:16 AMOUNT OF PUBLIC TESTIMONY

1:17 ALREADY.

1:18 IT'S ALL IN THIS BLUE BINDER SO

1:19 PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CONTINUE TO

1:21 SEND THOSE TO THAT EMAIL.

1:22 PUBLIC TESTIMONY WILL BE TAKEN

1:24 AT THE END OF THIS HEARING.

1:26 INDIVIDUALS WILL BE CALLED ON

1:27 IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY

1:28 SIGNED UP.

1:28 WE'LL HAVE TWO MINUTES TO

1:29 TESTIFY.

1:30 IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN

1:31 TESTIFYING IN PERSON, PLEASE

1:32 ADD YOUR NAME TO THE SIGN UP

1:33 SHEET NEAR THE ENTRANCE OF THE

1:35 CHAMBER.

1:35 IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO TESTIFY

1:37 VIRTUALLY, PLEASE EMAIL OUR

1:38 CENTRAL STAFF LIAISON MEGAN AT

1:41 AMIGA ENCORE.

1:43 ARE YOU GOOD?

1:45 OH, MA TIM AT BOSTON DOT GO FOR

1:49 THE LINK.

1:50 ANYONE IN YOUR NAME WILL BE

1:52 ADDED TO THE LIST.

1:53 TODAY'S HEARING IS ON DOCKET

1:54 141 FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING

1:56 CHAPTER 16 OF THE CITY

1:59 CODE ORDINANCES PROHIBITING THE

2:00 SALE AND USE OF SYNTHETIC.

2:03 AND WE NEED HELP ON THIS ONE.

2:04 YEAH.

2:05 GET.

2:09 DOES ANYBODY.

2:10 IN MY JANINE.

2:13 AND SEVEN HYDRO.

2:17 HYDROXY HYDROXY MATAJI LOVE IT

2:20 .

2:22 7-0H AND OTHER DANGEROUS

2:23 CHEMICAL COMPOUNDS I SHOULD

2:24 HAVE PRACTICED THAT BEFOREHAND.

2:26 THIS MATTER WAS SPONSORED BY

2:27 COUNCILORS JOHN FITZGERALD AND

2:28 ED FLYNN AND WAS REFERRED TO

2:29 THE COMMITTEE ON JULY 22ND

2:31 2026.

2:32 TODAY I'M JOINED BY MY

2:33 COLLEAGUES IN ORDER OF ARRIVAL

2:35 COUNCILOR CULPEPER,

2:36 COUNCILOR FLYNN AND

2:37 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD.

2:38 I WILL NOW PASS THE FLOOR OVER

2:41 TO COUNCILOR FITZGERALD WHO IS

2:42 THE LEAD CO-SPONSOR.

2:43 YOU NOW HAVE THE FLOOR.

2:45 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

2:46 MUCH APPRECIATED.

2:47 UH, AND THANK YOU, MISS MCCANN

2:49 FOR BEING HERE TODAY WITH US AS

2:50 WELL FROM THE ADMINISTRATION.

2:51 UH, JUST FOR THE OPENING.

2:53 SAY I WANT TO SAY THAT THIS WAS

2:54 SOMETHING OUR OFFICE STARTED

2:55 LOOKING AT BACK IN THE FALL.

2:56 UH, AND IT WAS TO BAN, UH, THE

2:59 SYNTHETIC USE OF 700, UH,

3:02 RIGHT.

3:02 WHICH IS THAT I KNOW THERE IS A

3:04 DIFFERENCE AND JUST WANT TO

3:05 CLARIFY FOR SOME FOLKS BETWEEN

3:06 THE ACTUAL WHOLE LEAF OF KRATOM

3:10 UH, AND THE SYNTHETIC UH

3:12 COMPOUND UH ARGININE AND 708 UH

3:15 THAT IS SOLD IN UH STORES, GAS

3:17 STATIONS ETC. IN OUR CITY AS WE

3:20 SPEAK.

3:20 AND SO UM, UH THIS IS FOCUSING

3:24 ON THE SYNTHETIC USE OF BAN

3:26 OF THE SYNTHETIC USE.

3:27 UM, WE KNOW THE GOVERNOR JUST

3:29 APPLIED A, UH A YEAR LONG BAN I

3:32 THINK IT WAS ON AUGUST 27TH IF

3:34 I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

3:35 UM, AND SO WE'RE LOOKING TO

3:38 AUGUST 27TH OF 2027 WHERE THAT

3:39 WOULD BE UP.

3:41 UM, HOWEVER, KNOWING THAT THERE

3:42 WAS A BAN AND I UNDERSTAND, UM,

3:44 THAT THERE MIGHT BE SOME LEGAL

3:46 ACTIONS BEING TAKEN BECAUSE

3:48 THAT BAN WAS ON THE WHOLE LEAF

3:50 AS WELL AS THE SYNTHETIC

3:51 COMPOUND.

3:53 UM, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO

3:55 HERE IS MAKE SURE THE REAL

3:56 DEADLY STUFF THAT WE'RE SEEING

3:58 ON THE STREETS IS THE SYNTHETIC

3:59 COMPOUND, UH, VERY SIMILAR TO

4:02 K2 OR SPICE, WHICH WAS THE

4:03 SYNTHETIC MARIJUANA THAT WE HAD

4:05 UH, MAYBE A LITTLE OVER A

4:06 DECADE AGO.

4:07 UH, AND LOOKING TO FOLLOW THE

4:08 SAME FOOTPRINT THERE OR THE

4:10 SAME BLUEPRINT, IF YOU WILL.

4:12 UM, IN TAKING ACTIONS AS WE DID

4:15 VERSUS K2 IN SPACE.

4:16 SO, UM, I STILL WANTED TO HAVE

4:18 THIS BECAUSE I THINK, UH,

4:19 KNOWING WITH SOME LEGAL ACTION

4:21 HAPPENING AT THE STATE WE'RE

4:23 NOT SURE HOW THAT AFFECTS

4:25 MUNICIPALITIES THAT HAVE A

4:26 SIMILAR, UH, LAW ALREADY ON THE

4:28 BOOKS OR ABOUT TO PUT ONE IN AS

4:31 THE CITY OF BOSTON HOPES TO UM

4:34 AND UH, POTENTIALLY LOOKING AT

4:36 OTHER OPTIONS OF MAYBE SAYING

4:37 AT THE END OF THIS ONE YEAR BAN

4:39 OUR ORDINANCE WOULD GO INTO

4:40 EFFECT.

4:41 SO HERE IT IS.

4:42 TALK ABOUT UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT

4:44 IT IS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO.

4:46 SOME OF THE HURDLES THAT WE

4:47 HAVE TO FACE NOW.

4:48 UH, GIVEN AN ADMINISTRATIVE

4:50 APPROACH AND THEN UM, SEEING IF

4:52 THERE'S A WAY TO WORK IT AROUND

4:53 WHERE WE CAN HAVE THIS STUFF

4:55 COME INTO PLACE.

4:55 UH, WHEN OTHER BANDS, UH, MAY

4:58 EXPIRE.

4:59 UM, AND SO WITH THAT, I LOOK

5:00 FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION AND

5:02 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

5:02 THANK YOU,

5:04 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD.

5:04 COUNCILOR FLYNN.

5:05 THANK YOU, COUNCIL ZAPATA AND

5:08 THANK YOU FOR SHARING THIS

5:10 IMPORTANT HEARING.

5:12 THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FITZGERALD

5:15 AS WELL FOR YOUR LEADERSHIP AS

5:18 A FORMER PROBATION OFFICER.

5:20 UM, AT SUFFOLK SUPERIOR COURT I

5:22 WORK WITH PEOPLE ON PROBATION

5:24 THAT WERE DEALING WITH

5:26 SUBSTANCE USE CHALLENGES AND IT

5:29 WAS ALWAYS MY PRIORITY TO GET

5:31 THEM THE TREATMENT THAT THEY

5:33 NEEDED AND TO PREVENT PEOPLE

5:35 FROM HOPEFULLY USING USING

5:38 ILLEGAL DRUGS AS WELL.

5:40 SOMETHING I'M STILL COMMITTED

5:41 TO AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.

5:43 EVEN MORE SO.

5:46 I BELIEVE.

5:47 IT'S CRITICAL TO PROHIBIT

5:49 THE SALE OF UNADULTERATED

5:52 KRATOM PRODUCTS, ESPECIALLY 21

5:55 UNDER 21 AND RESTRICT PACKAGING

6:00 MARKETING ADVERTISING DESIGNED

6:02 TO APPEAL TO CHILDREN.

6:05 I THINK WE NEED TO DO

6:06 EVERYTHING WE CAN TO SUPPORT

6:08 YOUNG PEOPLE, GIVE THEM OPTIONS

6:11 OF.

6:17 ON HOW HOW NOT TO GET ENGAGED

6:19 IN ILLEGAL DRUGS AND HOW TO

6:21 LIVE A HEALTHY LIFE A HEALTHY

6:23 LIFESTYLE WHETHER THEY'RE

6:24 WHETHER IT'S THROUGH SPORTS OR

6:27 ACADEMICS OR OR VARIOUS

6:29 PROGRAMS.

6:29 BUT I DO THINK WE HAVE TO

6:32 PROVIDE SOME VERTICAL

6:33 LEADERSHIP IN THIS CITY ON THIS

6:35 ISSUE.

6:36 RIGHT NOW IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S

6:39 UNREGULATED AND I DO THINK

6:40 THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME

6:41 REGULATION OVER THESE PRODUCTS

6:44 TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE PROVIDING

6:46 RESIDENTS WITH HEALTHY AND SAFE

6:48 ENVIRONMENTS.

6:48 THANK YOU.

6:49 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

6:50 THANK YOU, COUNCILOR CULPEPPER.

6:54 GOOD AFTERNOON EVERYONE.

6:56 I WANT TO THANK COUNCILOR CHAIR

6:58 KALINA.

7:00 THAT IS A PART OF HOLDING THIS

7:01 HEARING.

7:02 I WANT TO THANK

7:03 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD BRINGING

7:05 THIS DOCKET FORWARD AND

7:06 BEGINNING AN IMPORTANT

7:08 CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW BOSTON

7:11 SHOULD APPROACH THE REGULATION

7:13 AND CREATING.

7:14 I ALSO WANT TO THANK OUR

7:15 PANELISTS HERE TODAY AND

7:18 MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC FOR ALSO

7:20 BEING HERE TODAY.

7:22 I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE

7:24 APPROACH THIS ISSUE WITH SOME

7:26 NUANCE.

7:28 THERE ARE LEGITIMATE PUBLIC

7:29 HEALTH AND SAFETY CONCERNS

7:30 SURROUNDING KRATOM,

7:33 PARTICULARLY NEW NEWER

7:34 SYNTHETIC CHEMICALLY ALTERED,

7:37 ENHANCED AND HIGHLY

7:39 CONCENTRATED PRODUCT.

7:40 THIS ORDINANCE ATTEMPTS TO

7:42 ADDRESS THOSE CONCERNS BY

7:44 CONTINUING TO ALLOW QUALIFIED

7:47 NATURAL AND UNADULTERATED

7:49 KRATOM PRODUCTS FOR THOSE OVER

7:51 21.

7:52 THE WRITTEN TESTIMONY WE

7:54 RECEIVED DEMONSTRATES WHY THIS

7:56 DISTINCTION THIS DESERVES

7:59 CAREFUL CONSIDERATION.

8:01 AND I'VE READ THROUGH MANY

8:03 OF THESE SUBMISSIONS AND.

8:10 I HAVEN'T SEEN SUCH A BALANCED

8:12 ARGUMENT FROM BOTH SIDES.

8:15 THERE'S VERY WELL PRESENTED.

8:18 UM, WE'VE HEARD FROM

8:19 INDIVIDUALS WHO DESCRIBED

8:20 NATURALLY KRATOM AS SOMETHING

8:23 THEY RELY ON TO MANAGE CHRONIC

8:25 PAIN OR REDUCE THEIR RELIANCE

8:28 ON PRESCRIPTION OPIOIDS AND WHO

8:30 ARE ASKING US NOT TO TREAT

8:32 NATURAL AND SYNTHETIC OR HIGHLY

8:35 CONCENTRATED PRODUCTS AS

8:37 INTERCHANGEABLE.

8:38 AT THE SAME TIME WE WE'VE ALSO

8:41 HEARD FROM FAMILIES WHO

8:42 ATTRIBUTE THE LOSS OF LOVED

8:44 ONES AT KRATOM AND BELIEVE THE

8:46 RISKS EXTEND BEYOND SYNTHETIC 7

8:50 OR 8 PRODUCTS AND WERE

8:52 SUBSTANTIALLY STRONGER

8:54 RESTRICTIONS.

8:55 MY GOAL TODAY IS TO BETTER

8:56 UNDERSTAND THE EVIDENCE ON BOTH

8:57 SIDES AND DETERMINE HOW BOSTON

9:00 CAN PROTECT RESIDENTS FROM

9:02 POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS PRODUCTS

9:03 WHILE MAKING SURE THAT WHATEVER

9:05 POLICY WE ADOPT IS CLEAR,

9:09 ENFORCEABLE AND GROUNDED IN THE

9:11 EVIDENCE.

9:12 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

9:13 THANK YOU, COUNCILOR CULPEPPER.

9:15 UM, I DON'T HAVE TOO MANY

9:17 OPENING REMARKS.

9:17 I LOOK FORWARD TO THE

9:18 CONVERSATION.

9:19 I DO APPRECIATE

9:20 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD'S

9:20 LEADERSHIP HERE.

9:22 MY UNDERSTANDING THERE'S BEEN A

9:23 HEARING ALREADY ON THIS AND

9:24 THEN A SUBSEQUENT WORKING

9:25 SESSION TO DISCUSS, UM, THE.

9:29 UH THE LANGUAGE OF THE OF THE

9:30 ORGAN.

9:31 SO THANK YOU FOR THAT.

9:32 UM, HAPPY TO CONTINUE THE

9:34 PROCESS THROUGH THROUGH THIS

9:35 COMMITTEE.

9:35 THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT

9:38 REGULATORY FRAMEWORKS.

9:39 WE'VE GOT THE FEDS, WE'VE GOT

9:40 THE STATE, WE'VE GOT THE CITY.

9:41 SO UNDERSTANDING WHAT TO CREATE

9:43 HERE AND WHAT ITERATION WILL

9:45 ACTUALLY UM, YOU KNOW, PROTECT

9:47 OUR YOUTH.

9:48 UH, THERE'S A AS CALLED UH,

9:50 COUNCIL CULPEPER SAID THIS

9:51 NEEDS TO BE A LITTLE BIT

9:52 NUANCED HERE.

9:53 UM, BUT I DO APPRECIATE THE

9:55 APPROACH OF COUNCILOR

9:55 FITZGERALD OF TRYING TO

9:57 BALANCE, UM AND WALK THAT FINE

9:59 LINE HERE.

10:00 SO I LOOK FORWARD TO THE

10:01 CONVERSATION AND GRATEFUL THAT

10:02 YOU'RE HERE.

10:03 SO WITH THAT I WILL, UH,

10:05 INTRODUCE YOU.

10:05 UH, YOU ARE PJ MCCANN, UM,

10:08 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOR POLICY

10:10 AND PLANNING FROM THE BOSTON

10:10 PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION.

10:11 I'LL TURN IT OVER TO YOU FOR

10:13 ANY OPENING REMARKS YOU MAY

10:14 HAVE AND THEN WE'LL GO INTO

10:15 QUESTIONS.

10:15 THANK YOU.

10:16 GREAT.

10:17 GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR CLUB.

10:19 AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE.

10:21 THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY

10:22 TO.

10:23 BE HERE TODAY.

10:23 MY NAME IS PJ MCCANN AND I AM

10:25 DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOR POLICY

10:26 AND PLANNING FOR THE BOSTON

10:27 PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION.

10:28 UM, AS WE'VE MENTIONED AT

10:30 PREVIOUS HEARINGS, UH, CREATING

10:32 PRODUCTS PARTICULARLY

10:34 SYNTHESIZED PRODUCTS SUCH AS

10:36 SEVEN HYDROXY MITRA ARGININE

10:37 ALSO KNOWN AS 700 ARE DANGEROUS

10:39 BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN

10:41 UNREGULATED AND THEY PRESENT A

10:42 RANGE OF HEALTH RISKS INCLUDING

10:44 PSYCHOSIS, SEIZURES, PHYSICAL

10:46 DEPENDANCE, WITHDRAWAL AND AN

10:48 INCREASED RISK RISK OF OVERDOSE

10:50 AND DEATH.

10:51 THE MARKETING OF MANY OF THESE

10:53 PRODUCTS OFTEN INCLUDES

10:54 THERAPEUTIC CLAIMS RELATED TO

10:57 USE.

10:57 AS TREATMENT FOR PAIN,

10:58 TREATMENT FOR ANXIETY,

10:59 DEPRESSION AND.

11:00 OPIOID USE DISORDER.

11:02 DESPITE LACK OF REGULATORY

11:03 APPROVAL FOR THOSE USES.

11:05 AND AS THE COUNCIL IS AWARE AND

11:07 AS YOU ALL HAVE MENTIONED UM IN

11:09 AUGUST THE MASSACHUSETTS

11:10 DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC HEALTH

11:12 COMMISSIONER.

11:12 ISSUED A TEMPORARY ONE YEAR

11:15 EMERGENCY ORDER MAKING ALL

11:17 KRATOM PRODUCTS SCHEDULE ONE

11:18 SUBSTANCES EFFECTIVELY

11:20 PROHIBITING THEIR SALE AND

11:21 POSSESSION STATEWIDE.

11:23 THE BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH

11:24 COMMISSION SUPPORTS THE

11:26 COMMONWEALTH'S ORDER.

11:30 AND WE HAVE UH NOTIFIED UH, ALL

11:33 BOSTON TOBACCO RETAILERS ABOUT

11:35 THE ORDER AND WE WILL ENFORCE

11:36 IT WITH ONGOING GUIDANCE FROM

11:39 UH, MASTER UM, INCLUDING UH THE

11:42 MATERIALS THAT ARE ONLINE AT

11:45 MASS.GOV/KRATOM.

11:46 UM, THESE PRODUCTS AS YOU ALL

11:48 KNOW, ARE MOSTLY MOST COMMONLY

11:50 FOUND IN RETAIL STORES THAT

11:52 HOLD A PERMIT TO SELL TOBACCO

11:54 FROM VFC.

11:55 UM SO TO THAT END BPH HAS BEEN

11:58 INFORMING ALL BUSINESSES THAT

11:59 HOLD A PERMIT WITH US TO SELL

12:01 TOBACCO PRODUCTS ABOUT THE

12:02 STATE ORDER.

12:03 OUR INSPECTORS WILL CONTINUE TO

12:05 MONITOR FOR COMPLIANCE ALONG

12:07 WITH ONGOING TOBACCO CONTROL

12:08 COMPLIANCE INSPECTIONS WHILE

12:09 THE ORDER IS IN EFFECT.

12:11 UH, UNDER THE GUIDANCE IN FOR

12:15 ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS BY LOCAL

12:17 HEALTH AUTHORITIES MAY INCLUDE

12:18 CEASE AND DESIST NOTICES,

12:20 NUISANCE ACTIONS, CITATIONS AND

12:23 SUMMARY SUSPENSION OF MUNICIPAL

12:25 LICENSES OR PERMITS.

12:27 OUTREACH TO RETAILERS THIS IS

12:29 STILL ONGOING, BUT ANECDOTAL

12:31 REPORTS SUGGEST THAT MANY

12:33 RETAILERS HAVE ALREADY REMOVED

12:35 COVERED PRODUCTS FROM THEIR

12:36 SHELVES.

12:37 UM I DO WANT.

12:38 TO NOTE, UH, BEFORE CLOSING UH,

12:40 MY OPENING REMARKS THAT UM IF A

12:43 BOSTON RESIDENT IS LOOKING FOR

12:44 HELP, UH, TO STOP USING KRATOM

12:46 PRODUCTS, THEY SHOULD CALL

12:47 THROUGH ON ONE AND GET

12:49 CONNECTED WITH THE BOSTON

12:51 PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION'S

12:52 PATHS PROGRAM, WHICH CAN HELP

12:54 WITH REFERRALS TO TREATMENT.

12:56 UM, SO I WILL PAUSE THERE, UH,

12:59 FOR A QUESTION.

13:02 GREAT.

13:02 THANK YOU SO MUCH, PJ, FOR

13:03 YOUR WORK.

13:04 UM, I'LL PASS IT TO COUNSELOR

13:06 FITZGERALD.

13:06 WE'LL DO EIGHT MINUTES FOR

13:08 QUESTIONS.

13:09 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD, YOU HAVE

13:10 THE FLOOR.

13:11 THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MADAM

13:12 CHAIR.

13:13 UH, THANK YOU, DEPUTY DIRECTOR

13:14 MCCANN.

13:15 UM.

13:16 WOULD YOU SAY IT'S THE

13:18 BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION

13:19 STANCE THAT THE SYNTHETIC

13:21 KRATOM IS.

13:22 WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT OFF THE

13:24 SHELVES AND NOT ALLOWED.

13:25 IN OUR CITY.

13:26 SO IS THAT A STANCE THAT THEY

13:27 HAVE TAKEN THAT YOU GUYS HAVE

13:28 TAKEN AT THIS POINT?

13:29 THAT IS CORRECT.

13:29 YES.

13:30 GREAT.

13:30 UM, I ONLY SAY THAT BECAUSE I

13:33 KNOW BOTH FROM UM YOU KNOW.

13:35 WITH THE MASS AND CASS AREA AND

13:37 MY DISTRICT.

13:38 UH AND EVEN AS WELL AS SOME UH

13:39 IT'S HIT EVEN CLOSER TO HOME

13:41 UH, FOR SOME OF US.

13:42 UM, BOTH IN.

13:43 MY OFFICE AND AROUND AND

13:44 FRIENDS.

13:45 THAT, UH, THIS ISSUE WAS.

13:46 BROUGHT UP AND WHY I BROUGHT IT

13:47 FORWARD AND WHAT IS HAPPENING

13:49 TO SOME OF THE FOLKS OUT THERE

13:50 THINKING THAT THIS IS EITHER.

13:51 UM.

13:52 YOU KNOW, LIKE A FIVE HOUR.

13:54 ENERGY DRINK OR JUST QUICK PAIN

13:55 RELIEF OR THINGS OF THAT NATURE

13:57 AND HOW IT'S MARKETED AND WHO.

13:58 IT'S MARKETED TO.

14:00 UM, BUT WITHOUT HAVING THE

14:02 EFFECTS UH.

14:04 THERE ARE A NUMBER OF.

14:06 CITIES TOWNS MUNICIPALITIES.

14:08 THAT CURRENTLY HAVE UH.

14:12 PROHIBITED THE SYNTHETIC

14:14 VERSION OF THE.

14:15 SEVEN THE 700 AND.

14:16 H UM FROM THEIR TOWN.

14:19 SO I BELIEVE THERE WAS LIKE 17

14:20 THERE.

14:21 IT MIGHT BE.

14:22 IT MIGHT BE MORE THAN THAT.

14:23 UM, SO I'M LOOKING TO FOLLOW.

14:25 THAT LEAD.

14:26 RIGHT.

14:27 AND I KNOW IN THE STEPS WE'VE

14:29 TAKE TO BAN.

14:30 THE SYNTHETIC MARIJUANA.

14:31 WHEN THAT WAS A BIGGER DEAL,

14:32 UM, THAT, UH, WE'RE LOOKING TO

14:35 FOLLOW THAT THAT BLUEPRINT.

14:37 WHERE WOULD YOU SAY I KNOW

14:38 RIGHT NOW I KNOW FROM OUR.

14:40 SIDE OF THINGS.

14:41 WE'RE LOOKING AT IT THAT, YOU

14:43 KNOW, TO MAKE AN ORDINANCE WE

14:44 STILL PROBABLY HAVE TO HAVE

14:45 MAYBE ONE MORE WORKING SESSION

14:46 WORK ON SOME LANGUAGE.

14:47 AND THEN WE COULD VOTE ON AS AN

14:49 ORDINANCE TO TAKE EFFECT.

14:50 HOWEVER, THINGS ARE NOW

14:51 COMPLICATED.

14:52 I'M NOT SURE THE DEGREE TO

14:53 WHICH YOU CAN TALK.

14:54 ABOUT ALL OF THAT NOW THAT THE

14:55 STATE.

14:56 MIGHT BE BEING SUED.

14:58 UM BUT WHAT WOULD YOUR ARE WE

14:59 THE STEPS FOR THE K2 SPICE

15:01 SYNTHETIC MARIJUANA?

15:02 WHAT WOULD WE HAVE.

15:03 LEFT TO DO IN OUR PROCESS FROM

15:05 THE BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH

15:06 STANDPOINT?

15:07 SO I WOULD I WOULD SORT

15:09 OF START BY I SUPPOSE

15:11 DESCRIBING THE UH THE STATE

15:14 OF PLAY.

15:15 IN THE YEAR IN WHICH THE STATE

15:17 ORDER REMAINS IN EFFECT.

15:20 SO FOR THAT PERIOD OF TIME, IF

15:21 THIS ORDINANCE PASSED AS

15:25 DRAFTED, THEN THE PROVISIONS

15:27 THAT WERE WEAKER THAN THE STATE

15:29 ORDER WOULD BE SORT OF NULL AND

15:30 VOID UNENFORCEABLE.

15:32 IT WOULDN'T MAKE UH LEAF.

15:34 TEA SORT OF THE PRODUCTS THAT

15:36 WERE EXEMPTED TO TO INDIVIDUALS

15:38 OVER 21.

15:39 IT WOULDN'T.

15:40 MAKE THEM LEGAL AT.

15:41 THE.

15:41 LOCAL LEVEL.

15:42 SO WE'RE SORT OF PREEMPTED FROM

15:43 DOING ANYTHING WEAKER.

15:45 UH.

15:46 I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK, UH.

15:47 YOU KNOW, OFFERED LEGAL

15:49 OPINIONS SORT OF FAR BEYOND

15:51 THAT.

15:52 BUT THAT.

15:52 DOES UM JUST APPEAR.

15:54 TO BE.

15:56 UM TO BE SORT OF AT BASELINE.

15:58 IF.

15:58 WE DID ANYTHING THAT.

15:59 UH THAT IS WEAKER THAN THE

16:00 STATE'S ORDER THAT IT WOULDN'T

16:02 HAVE ANY LEGAL EFFECT UNTIL A

16:05 SITUATION WHERE THE ORDER

16:05 EITHER EXPIRED WITHOUT A POLICY

16:08 REPLACING IT OR UM, OR IT WAS

16:11 STRUCK DOWN.

16:13 SO THAT.

16:13 WOULD LEAVE US.

16:15 AT A POINT WHERE YOU'RE RIGHT.

16:17 I MEAN, THE STATE OBVIOUSLY

16:19 SUPERSEDES.

16:19 UH, BUT IT IS A TEMPORARY BAN.

16:22 AND UH, THE REASON I'M STILL

16:24 MOTIVATED TO GO FORWARD IS I

16:26 WOULD LIKE TO HAVE SOMETHING ON

16:27 THE BOOKS OR AT LEAST TAKE

16:30 EFFECT WHEN.

16:31 THE BAN EXPIRES.

16:34 UH, SO THERE'S NO LAG.

16:35 TIME IN ALLOWING.

16:37 FOLKS TO.

16:38 GET THE SYNTHETIC UM.

16:41 UH, NITROGEN UM, BACK ONTO THE

16:44 MARKET EVEN FOR A YOU KNOW,

16:46 EVEN IF THERE WAS A ONE WEEKEND

16:47 WINDOW.

16:48 WHERE, YOU KNOW.

16:49 IF THE STATE ISN'T ABLE TO TAKE

16:51 ACTION WITHIN THE YEAR AND.

16:54 UH AND THE CITY CAN BE.

16:56 SORT OF LOOKING FOR FORWARD

16:58 LOOKING.

16:59 IN THE WAY THAT WE CAN SAY.

17:00 WELL, LOOK, WE'VE SET IT UP

17:01 SO THAT IT'S EXTENDED EXPIRES.

17:02 THIS TAKES.

17:03 EFFECT IMMEDIATELY.

17:04 SO THERE REALLY IS NO DROP OFF.

17:06 UH, IN THAT BAN UH, AT LEAST

17:08 AROUND THE SYNTHETIC.

17:11 UM I.

17:11 THINK THAT IS THE GOAL HERE.

17:12 I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'RE AWARE

17:14 OF ANY.

17:15 OTHER WHETHER IT'S A PUBLIC

17:16 HEALTH.

17:16 BILL OR ANY BILL IN GENERAL

17:18 THAT HAS THAT SORT OF UM, UH,

17:21 YOU KNOW.

17:22 EXPIRATION AND THEN.

17:23 SOMETHING ELSE TAKES EFFECT

17:24 THAT.

17:24 THAT IS YOU'RE RIGHT IT WE ARE

17:26 A.

17:26 LITTLE LESS LENIENT ON THE A

17:28 LITTLE MORE LENIENT THAN THE

17:30 STATE'S CURRENT BAN.

17:32 SO I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY ANY

17:35 THING IN THE CITY CHARTER OR

17:38 COUNCIL RULES THAT PRECLUDES

17:39 THE COUNCIL FROM HAVING UH, AN

17:42 EFFECTIVE DATE THAT'S, YOU

17:43 KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE A YEAR OUT

17:46 SO THAT THAT IS AN APPROACH

17:47 THAT'S THAT'S AVAILABLE TO THE

17:49 COUNCIL.

17:50 UM, THE SORT OF I SUPPOSE THE

17:53 OTHER JUST CONSIDERATION IS IS

17:55 THAT THAT IDEA OF OF NOT

17:57 WANTING TO DO SOMETHING THAT

17:59 WOULD BE INCONSISTENT WITH

18:01 STATE LAW IN A WAY THAT IT'S

18:03 SUBJECT TO A PREEMPTION

18:05 CHALLENGE.

18:05 I THINK THAT THAT COULD BE

18:07 HANDLED A NUMBER OF WAYS.

18:08 I THINK THERE COULD BE LANGUAGE

18:12 THAT DEFERS TO, YOU KNOW, THE

18:17 THE EFFECTIVE DATE COULD ALSO

18:19 BE SUBJECT TO ANY STATE LAW

18:22 CHANGE ON THIS MATTER.

18:24 THE OTHER APPROACHES TO.

18:27 WAIT TO.

18:28 ADOPT THE ORDINANCE UNTIL YOU

18:30 KNOW MORE ABOUT THE THE STATE

18:32 OF PLAY IT AT THE STATE LEVEL.

18:34 UM.

18:35 BUT I THINK.

18:36 IN AN EFFECTIVE DATE THAT IS

18:38 AFTER THE INITIAL ORDER PERIOD

18:39 WOULD AVOID SOME OF THOSE

18:42 ISSUES ABOUT PUTTING ON AN

18:43 ORDER THAT IS UM, THAT AT LEAST

18:46 PART OF IT IS IS SUPERSEDED BY

18:48 STATE LAW.

18:48 DO YOU THINK BY IF WE WERE TO

18:51 GO FORWARD WITH THE.

18:52 ORDINANCE AND AND.

18:54 PUT IT ON THE BOOKS AND

18:55 WHETHER WE HAD.

18:56 A UM, YOU.

18:58 KNOW, THE EXPIRATION DATE.

18:59 AND FOR IT TO TAKE EFFECT

19:01 AFTER THE YEAR BAN.

19:02 UM, WOULD IT BE HELPFUL FOR THE

19:05 CITY OF BOSTON TO.

19:06 LEAD IN THIS BY.

19:08 CRAFTING SOME OF THE

19:09 LEGISLATION.

19:09 HERE AT OUR.

19:10 LOCAL LEVEL THAT.

19:12 ACT AS THE ECONOMIC ENGINE AND

19:14 BIGGEST CITY IN THE STATE WHERE

19:16 IF WE CAN APPLY IT.

19:17 HERE THIS WE MIGHT GIVE A

19:19 BLUEPRINT TO THE STATE OF HOW

19:21 TO DO THIS AND FAIRLY GET IT

19:23 PASSED AT WITH AT A REASONABLE

19:25 LEVEL UNDERSTANDING PEOPLE'S

19:26 USE OF.

19:26 WHOLE LEAF.

19:27 VERSUS THE USE OF.

19:28 SYNTHETIC AND HOW THAT'S

19:29 MARKETED.

19:31 UM AND MAYBE HAVE THEM.

19:33 WHEN THEIR YEAR BAN.

19:35 EXPIRES TO ALIGN WITH WHAT WE

19:37 COULD HAVE ON OUR.

19:37 BOOKS OR POTENTIALLY.

19:38 HAVE ON OUR BOOKS.

19:39 AND YOU THINK THERE'S A WAY WE

19:40 CAN WORK WITH THE.

19:41 STATE ON.

19:42 THAT LANGUAGE.

19:43 SO THAT.

19:44 WHEN THAT HAPPENS.

19:45 WE'RE ALL IN ALIGNMENT AND WE

19:47 ALL FALL BACK.

19:47 INTO THE SAME VERBIAGE.

19:49 CERTAINLY I THINK IF IF THIS IS

19:52 UM THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THAT

19:53 IS TAKEN UP BY THE LEGISLATURE

19:55 I THINK.

19:57 UM HEARING FROM THE

19:58 MUNICIPALITIES THAT ARE

19:59 ENGAGING ON THE ISSUE LOCALLY

20:00 COULD BE HELPFUL TO DRIVE A

20:03 CONSENSUS ABOUT SOME OF THE THE

20:04 OUTSTANDING POLICY QUESTIONS

20:06 ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHERE TO DRAW

20:08 THE LINE WITH WITH CERTAIN

20:09 CONCENTRATIONS AND UM, BAND AID

20:12 LIMITS AND ENFORCEMENT AND

20:14 THINGS LIKE THAT.

20:15 SO I.

20:16 THINK THERE'S UH THERE'S PLENTY

20:18 OF OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE.

20:20 GREG AND.

20:21 UM.

20:21 I.

20:22 KNOW THAT LAST MONTH.

20:23 YEAH.

20:23 NO NO NO, THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

20:25 UM THANK YOU.

20:26 CHAIR.

20:26 UM.

20:29 YEAH.

20:30 WITH THAT I JUST THINK I'D I'D

20:32 WANT TO SEE SOMETHING.

20:33 I WANT.

20:34 TO BE PROACTIVE.

20:35 HERE AS A CITY WHERE WE ARE NOT

20:36 LEFT.

20:37 EXPOSED AFTER.

20:38 A YEAR.

20:39 UH, IF THE LEGISLATURE.

20:41 DOES NOT MOVE ON THIS, UH, THAT

20:43 WE'RE BACK AT.

20:44 SQUARE ONE.

20:45 AND SORT OF HAVE TO START OUR

20:47 COUNCIL PROCESS.

20:48 ALL OVER AGAIN AND, UM, JUST

20:50 TAKES.

20:51 IT THAT MUCH LONGER FOR THE.

20:52 WINDOW TO BE OPEN TO ALLOW THIS

20:54 STUFF.

20:54 UM, ARE YOU GUYS DO YOU GUYS

20:56 HAVE KRATOM?

20:58 UM, STATS?

20:59 UH HAVE YOU.

21:00 IS THIS SOMETHING THAT HAS.

21:01 BEEN.

21:01 TRACKED WITHIN THE CITY

21:02 OF BOSTON OR.

21:03 ACROSS THE STATE?

21:04 UM, AND HAVE WE SEEN RECENT

21:06 TRENDS?

21:07 SO I WILL SAY UM.

21:09 THE THE DATA IS IS LIMITED WHEN

21:13 WHEN DPI ISSUED THEIR ORDER

21:14 THEY'RE REQUIRED TO MAKE MAKE A

21:16 LIST OF FINDINGS AND THEY

21:17 INCLUDED SORT OF THE NUMBER

21:19 OF DEATHS INVOLVING KRATOM I

21:21 THINK THAT'S SORT OF THE BEST

21:23 DATA THEY HAVE IN THE STATE.

21:25 THEY INCIDENCE TRAGIC

21:28 FATALITIES HAVE BEEN SORT

21:29 OF INCREASING I WILL SAY

21:30 THEY'RE USUALLY PAIRED WITH

21:31 OTHER SUBSTANCE USE OR POLY

21:34 SUBSTANCE USE WHERE WHERE

21:35 KRATOM IS INVOLVED.

21:37 UM BUT I AS FAR AS I'M AWARE I

21:40 DON'T THINK WE HAVE BOSTON

21:42 SPECIFIC OVERDOSE DATA.

21:45 I THINK WE SORT OF YOU.

21:46 KNOW.

21:47 DO ANECDOTALLY SEE THAT IT'S

21:48 SOMETHING THAT HAS TICKED UP AS

21:51 AVAILABILITY HAS HAS TICKED UP

21:52 IN RECENT YEARS AND UM BUT I

21:54 APOLOGIZE THAT I DON'T HAVE ANY

21:56 MORE SPECIFIC.

21:57 NO I WAS JUST WHEN I WHEN I

21:58 TALKED TO UH RECOVERY HOMES AND

22:00 .

22:00 PROGRAMS AND.

22:01 THINGS UH IT'S CERTAINLY

22:02 SOMETHING THAT THEY SAID WHEN I

22:04 MENTIONED CREIGHTON THEY THEY

22:05 JUST SHOOK.

22:06 OH YEAH.

22:06 OH YEAH WE.

22:07 GET WE.

22:08 GET THE.

22:08 GREAT AMUSING.

22:09 SO UM, LIKE YOU.

22:10 SAID ANECDOTALLY I'VE SEEN.

22:12 AN.

22:12 INCREASE JUST UH THROUGH STORY

22:14 UM FOR PEOPLE APPROACHING.

22:15 ME SINCE I TOOK THIS UP IN

22:16 THE FALL UM, AND REACHING OUT

22:18 AND TELLING OTHER STORIES THAT

22:19 UH.

22:19 IT'S JUST SOMETHING I THINK.

22:21 UM.

22:22 ULTIMATELY I.

22:23 WANT TO GET THE SYNTHETIC

22:24 VERSION OFF THE SHELVES.

22:26 I APPRECIATE THE STATE'S BAN.

22:27 I KNOW IT'S TEMPORARY.

22:28 I JUST DON'T WANT TO LEAVE A

22:29 LAPSE AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE

22:31 WE'VE GOT ON THE BOOKS WHAT WE

22:32 NEED TO HAVE TO KEEP THE

22:33 CHILDREN OF BOSTON SAFE.

22:34 AND NOT JUST THE CHILDREN BUT

22:36 ALSO FOLKS.

22:37 STRUGGLING WITH ADDICTION AND

22:38 UM, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE

22:40 DAY I'M LOOKING FORWARD.

22:41 TO.

22:42 THE LANGUAGE THAT THAT COULD

22:43 DO.

22:43 THAT UH, OPEN AND AMENABLE TO

22:45 ALL OF THAT WORKING WITH THE.

22:47 STATE AND TRYING TO HELP GUIDE

22:48 THEM ON MAYBE SOME BETTER, UH,

22:50 PARAMETERS.

22:51 THAT THEY COULD ENFORCE.

22:53 UM.

22:54 AND WITH THAT I LOOKED AT.

22:55 THE BOSTON PUBLIC HEALTH

22:56 COMMISSION HELP AND YOUR

22:57 CONTINUED SUPPORT AND ALL

22:58 OF THIS AND SO, UM, DEPUTY

23:00 DIRECTOR, I REALLY APPRECIATE

23:01 YOUR TIME AND THANK YOU VERY

23:02 MUCH, MADAM CHAIR.

23:03 THANK YOU.

23:04 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD.

23:05 UM, JUST A QUICK NOTE WE CAN

23:07 BASED ON THE, UM, NOT WANTING

23:09 TO CONFLICT WITH STATE LAW TO

23:11 DUE TO A PREEMPTION CHALLENGE,

23:12 WE CAN DO A SEVERABILITY CLAUSE

23:13 LIKE THIS SHALL NOT CONFLICT

23:14 WITH BUT WE'VE DONE THAT BEFORE

23:16 IN THE PAST SO WE CAN UM WE CAN

23:18 MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S INCLUDED.

23:19 UM, COUNCILOR FLYNN, YOU KNOW,

23:20 HAVE THE FLOOR.

23:21 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

23:22 AND.

23:24 I WAS AT A COMMUNITY MEETING

23:26 WHEN THIS WAS DISCUSSED

23:28 INITIALLY WAS A SOUTHERN

23:30 COMMUNITY, UM, COMMUNITY

23:33 MEETING AND IN MY DISTRICT IN

23:36 DISTRICT TWO, I SHOULD SAY

23:38 THERE WAS SELLING THIS TYPE

23:40 OF PRODUCT LEGALLY AT THE

23:41 STORE.

23:42 I BELIEVE IT WAS I BELIEVE IT

23:43 WAS COLUMBUS AVENUE AND THAT'S

23:46 HOW RESIDENTS RESPONDED AS THEY

23:48 WANTED MYSELF AND

23:49 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD TO

23:51 RESEARCH THIS.

23:54 UM AND AGAIN AS I MENTIONED AS

23:56 A PROBATION OFFICER I WORKED

23:58 WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE

24:00 ON THE ON SYNTHETIC DRUGS SUCH

24:03 AS UM K2 AND IN OTHER IN OTHER

24:07 TYPES OF UM AND OTHER TYPES

24:10 OF DRUGS AS WELL.

24:14 UM PJ UM I MIGHT BE MISSING

24:16 SOMETHING IN ON ON THIS SUBJECT

24:19 AND IF YOU COULD HELP ME I'M

24:22 AGAINST I SUPPORT OBVIOUSLY THE

24:24 PROPOSAL TO UM ADDRESS THIS

24:26 ISSUE AND TO ENSURE THAT IT

24:30 DOESN'T BECOME PUBLIC BUT.

24:31 WHAT IS THE.

24:34 OPPOSITE SIDE I DON'T

24:35 UNDERSTAND THE THE OPPOSITE

24:37 POINT.

24:38 IS PEOPLE.

24:39 SUPPORT THIS BECAUSE OF BECAUSE

24:41 OF WHY I DO HAVE AN IDEA WHY

24:43 THEY'RE SUPPORTING IT.

24:46 IS THE QUESTION UH WHY CERTAIN

24:48 PEOPLE OPPOSE RESTRICTIONS.

24:50 YEAH EXACTLY EXACTLY YEAH.

24:52 I WOULD SAY FROM MY

24:54 UNDERSTANDING IS THAT UM

24:56 ESPECIALLY ON THE BOTANICAL

24:58 NATURAL LEAF SIDE SORT OF THE

25:00 THE SORT OF USE UM THAT'S MORE

25:02 LIKE DRINKING A TEA OR SORT

25:04 OF OTHER HERBAL SUPPLEMENTS AT

25:06 LOWER CONCENTRATION LEVELS THAT

25:09 UM, YOU KNOW, AS

25:10 COUNCILOR CULPEPPER SAID, THERE

25:11 ARE REPORTS THAT SOME PEOPLE,

25:13 YOU KNOW, HAVE FOUND THAT

25:15 THERAPEUTIC AGAIN, IS NOT

25:17 SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN APPROVED

25:18 BY THE FDA AS UM FOR ANY

25:21 THERAPEUTIC USE.

25:22 BUT I THINK THERE IS A

25:24 RECOGNITION THAT THERE'S A SORT

25:25 OF A SCALE OF HARM BETWEEN SOME

25:28 OF THE MOST CONCENTRATED UM

25:30 SYNTHESIZED PRODUCTS AND THE

25:31 NATURAL PRODUCTS.

25:32 SO THAT'S THAT'S PART OF WHAT I

25:35 THINK SOME OF THE UM, THE

25:37 QUESTIONS AND PUSHBACK THAT YOU

25:38 MIGHT BE HEARING ARE ABOUT.

25:40 NO THANK YOU BUT BUT THIS

25:42 PROPOSAL THIS ORDINANCE

25:44 PROPOSAL WOULDN'T RESTRICT THAT

25:46 TYPE OF PRODUCT OR WOULD IT.

25:49 AS DRAFTED I BELIEVE IT SETS AN

25:50 AGE LIMIT UH 2421 FOR THE SORT

25:54 OF NATURAL PRODUCTS.

25:56 OKAY.

25:57 SO IF A YOUNG PERSON SO

25:59 YOUNG PERSONNEL CAN BUY THE THE

26:02 HERBAL PRODUCTS.

26:03 CANNOT BUY CANNOT YEAH.

26:05 THEY SO IF IT'S A NATURAL

26:06 PRODUCT IT'S UH 21 PLUS AND IF

26:10 IT'S A CERTAIN CONCENTRATION OR

26:11 THE SYNTHESIZED SEVEN OH AGE

26:14 THAT'S A TOTAL BAN.

26:16 OKAY.

26:17 BUT THAT THEY ARE AVAILABLE

26:19 LEGALLY TO SOMEONE OVER THE.

26:21 AGE.

26:21 OF OVER THE AGE OF 21.

26:23 IN THE THE NATURAL PRODUCTS

26:25 WOULD BE AVAILABLE TO SOMEBODY

26:27 OVER 21 AFTER AFTER THE STATE

26:30 BAN WERE TO SUNSET OR SUNSET.

26:33 RIGHT NOW EVERYTHING IS.

26:36 THERE IS NO CONCERN OR

26:38 DISCUSSION ABOUT BANNING THAT

26:41 FOR.

26:42 PEOPLE OVER 21 TO USE THAT TYPE

26:45 OF UM CURRENT PRODUCT IS THAT.

26:51 I THINK THAT THAT'S IT SOUNDS

26:53 TO ME LIKE THAT IS ONE AREA

26:56 WHERE AS THE COUNCIL IS

26:58 FINALIZING THEIR APPROACH THEY

26:59 SHOULD LOOK AT THE THE DATA AND

27:02 SCIENCE AND AND PERHAPS WHAT

27:03 THE OTHER MUNICIPALITIES ARE

27:04 DOING IF THERE'S AN INTEREST IN

27:06 HAVING A UNIFIED APPROACH TO

27:09 SUGGEST TO UM TO STATE

27:11 REGULATORS AND LEGISLATORS.

27:13 BUT UM.

27:15 I THINK THAT IS SORT OF A KEY

27:16 QUESTION.

27:16 IT'S PLAYING OUT AT THIS AT THE

27:18 FEDERAL LEVEL AS WELL.

27:20 UM, SO THAT THAT'S ALL TO SAY I

27:23 THINK THERE'S A RECOGNITION

27:23 THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN

27:25 THE HARMS BETWEEN UH.

27:27 THE HIGHLY CONCENTRATED IN THE

27:29 SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS AND THE

27:30 NATURAL PRODUCTS AND IT'S A

27:32 MATTER OF LIKE DRAWING.

27:34 OKAY.

27:36 WHAT IS THE WHAT IS THE

27:38 FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DONE ON THIS

27:40 ISSUE?

27:41 SO CURRENTLY THERE THERE WAS A

27:44 NOTICE OF INTENT TO SCHEDULE

27:46 SORT OF ESSENTIALLY THE

27:47 PRODUCTS THAT WE ARE PROPOSING

27:49 TO TO BAN WITH SOME NUANCE

27:51 AROUND THE CONCENTRATION I

27:52 BELIEVE.

27:53 UM BUT THE COMMENT PERIOD FOR

27:54 THAT I THINK HAS BEEN EXTENDED

27:56 TO THE POINT WHERE WE DON'T WE

27:57 DON'T NOW HAVE A FINAL

27:59 RESOLUTION ON THAT.

28:00 SO THERE IS YOU KNOW, THAT

28:02 THERE'S A LOT OF NUANCE AT ALL

28:03 ALL THREE LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT

28:05 ON THIS ISSUE AND UM, IMPORTANT

28:08 TO BE ENGAGED.

28:09 BUT THERE ARE.

28:10 THINGS.

28:11 THAT COULD.

28:11 CHANGE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

28:13 OKAY.

28:15 ARE THERE ANY CITIES AND

28:18 TOWNS ACROSS ACROSS THE COUNTRY

28:21 THAT ARE DOING SOMETHING

28:23 SIMILAR TO THIS PROPOSAL?

28:25 THERE ARE I, I DON'T HAVE A

28:27 FULL UM POLICY SCAN IN FRONT

28:30 OF ME, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF A

28:31 LOT OF WORK AT THE STATE LEVEL

28:32 IN STATE LEGISLATURES ACROSS

28:33 THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE TAKEN

28:35 DIFFERENT APPROACHES TO TO

28:37 CONCENTRATES AND SIMILARLY WITH

28:39 WITH MUNICIPALITIES AND AND IN

28:41 MASSACHUSETTS THERE ARE AT

28:42 LEAST THE 17 THAT HAVE GONE UM

28:46 SO YOU KNOW, I THINK AS WE'RE

28:48 AS WE'RE FINALIZING IT COULDN'T

28:49 HURT TO LOOK AT UM, THE

28:51 LANGUAGE SEE IF THERE ARE

28:53 COMMONALITIES AND BEST

28:54 PRACTICES.

28:56 OKAY.

28:58 IN.

29:02 MAYBE MY FINAL QUESTION IS IF

29:05 SOMEONE IS USING USING THIS

29:08 PRODUCT LEGALLY RIGHT NOW,

29:13 COULD THEY BE IMPAIRED AT ALL

29:16 IN TERMS OF DRIVING A VEHICLE?

29:20 I.

29:21 I DON'T HAVE EXPERTISE IN

29:23 THE EXACT EFFECTS BUT I KNOW AT

29:25 CERTAIN LEVELS OF USE CREATE

29:27 THEM CAN DELIVER SORT OF UM.

29:31 CALMING EFFECTS ON THE BODY AND

29:33 AT CERTAIN OTHER HIGHER DOSES

29:35 IT CAN IT CAN FUNCTION MORE AS

29:38 AN OPIOID.

29:38 SO I WOULD SAY THAT.

29:40 IT WOULD BE UM THERE WOULD

29:42 CERTAINLY BE A RISK

29:43 OF IMPAIRMENT DRIVING AGAIN

29:44 THERE'S THERE'S NO LEGAL USE IN

29:48 THE STATE AT THE MOMENT BUT IN

29:50 GENERAL I WOULD ADVISE AGAINST

29:52 DRIVING IF YOU'VE USED ANY

29:54 OF THE FORMULATIONS.

29:56 OKAY I THINK MY TIME IS UP

29:59 THINKING THAT.

29:59 COUNTER THANK YOU.

30:01 UH THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN.

30:02 COUNCILOR CULPEPPER YOU KNOW

30:03 BEFORE.

30:04 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

30:06 THANK YOU.

30:07 DEPUTY MCCANN.

30:08 I WANT TO TRY AND UNDERSTAND

30:12 SOME OF THE EVIDENCE ON BOTH

30:13 SIDES AND SO.

30:18 WHAT DID THE SCIENTIFIC

30:19 EVIDENCE TELL US ABOUT THE

30:21 DIFFERENCE IN RISK BETWEEN

30:24 TRADITIONAL NATURAL LEAF KRATOM

30:29 AND SYNTHETIC ENHANCED OR

30:32 HIGHLY CONCENTRATED 708

30:35 PRODUCTS?

30:35 YEAH.

30:36 SO I, I WOULD SAY THE UM

30:39 PROBABLY THE MOST TELLING SET

30:43 OF DATA IS IS WHEN WE LOOK AT

30:47 OVERDOSES AND OVERDOSE DEATHS

30:48 THAT HAVE INVOLVED KRATOM

30:50 PRODUCTS, THE MAJORITY OF THOSE

30:52 HAVING A HAVE INVOLVED THE UM

30:57 SYNTHETIC OR HIGHLY

30:58 CONCENTRATED VERSIONS.

31:01 UM BROADLY SPEAKING YOU KNOW,

31:02 LOWER LOWER CONCENTRATION,

31:05 LOWER RISK.

31:10 IS THAT DISTINCTION IS IT IS IT

31:13 IS TINCTURE SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH

31:15 FROM A PUBLIC HEALTH

31:17 PERSPECTIVE TO JUSTIFY

31:19 REGULATING THEM DIFFERENTLY?

31:25 I, I THINK THE I'LL SAY THE

31:28 DRAFT BEFORE YOU DOES TREAT

31:32 THEM DIFFERENTLY AND I THINK UM

31:36 THERE THERE IS THERE ARE

31:39 ARGUMENTS FOR UM FOR DRAWING

31:41 THE LINE AT JUST SYNTHETICS

31:44 THEIR ARGUMENT, THEIR ARGUMENTS

31:45 THAT DRAWING THE LINE AT JUST

31:48 SYNTHESIZED SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS.

31:50 THIS IS A CATEGORY OF, YOU

31:52 KNOW, ULTRA CONCENTRATED

31:53 PRODUCTS THAT ARE ALSO VERY

31:55 COMMONLY FOUND ON THE SHELVES

31:57 AND ARE ASSOCIATED WITH WITH

32:00 HEALTH HARMS.

32:01 UM, SO YOU KNOW, THE SCIENCE IS

32:05 UM IS.

32:06 COMPLICATED HERE I THINK AND

32:08 SORT OF FINDING UH FINDING AN

32:10 EXACT NUMBER I THINK THE THE

32:13 FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS LOOKING

32:15 AT 0.0 5% CONCENTRATION OF OF

32:19 THE ACTIVE CHEMICAL BUT AGAIN

32:22 IT'S UM THIS IS SORT OF A

32:24 MATTER OF LOOKING AT WHAT DOSE

32:27 IS LIKELY TO LEAD.

32:29 TO DEPENDANCE TO SIDE EFFECTS I

32:30 MENTIONED AND UH SUBSTANCE USE

32:33 DISORDER AND IN A WORST CASE UM

32:37 FATAL OVERDOSE.

32:39 I WAS TRYING TO GET TO THE REAL

32:40 EVIDENCE.

32:41 UH, WHAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE

32:44 WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE

32:45 ON BOTH SIDES AND THE DIFFERENT

32:48 STORIES THAT THE EVIDENCE TELLS

32:51 ABOUT ONE VERSUS THE OTHER AND

32:55 ,UH.

32:59 HOW CAN A RETAILER, A CONSUMER

33:06 OR EVEN A CITY INSPECTOR

33:08 ACTUALLY DETERMINE WHETHER A

33:09 PRODUCT MEETS YOU OR IS THE

33:12 DEFINITION OF UNADULTERATED HOW

33:16 CAN I CAN YOU TELL.

33:18 I WILL SAY THAT THAT THAT IS

33:20 THAT IS ONE OF THE

33:23 IMPLEMENTATION BENEFITS OF A

33:25 TOTAL BAN IS THAT AT LEAST IF

33:27 SOMETHING IS HOLDING ITSELF OUT

33:29 AS AS BEING A GREAT UM, PRODUCT

33:31 ,A CHALLENGE IS THAT SOME

33:33 OF THE PRODUCTS DON'T SAY THAT

33:35 WORD ON THEM.

33:37 UM, AND SO THEY'RE THE THE UH

33:40 RETAILER EDUCATION NEEDS TO

33:42 INVOLVE THINGS LIKE HERE ARE

33:44 PICTURES OF THE PRODUCTS THAT

33:45 UM THAT ARE COVERED BY THIS

33:47 ORDINANCE OR BY THIS BY THIS

33:49 ORDER.

33:50 UM, SO THAT'S A THAT'S A

33:53 CHALLENGE WITH A LOT OF, YOU

33:56 KNOW, LOCAL REGULATION BUT I

33:57 WOULD SAY THE UM THE INSPECTORS

34:01 GET A GOOD SENSE OF WHAT THE

34:02 WHAT THE RETAIL MARKET LOOKS

34:04 LIKE AND AND DO THEIR BEST TO

34:06 TO STAY ON TOP OF ANY UM, ANY

34:09 LAW THAT THEY'RE CHARGED WITH

34:10 ENFORCING.

34:10 WITH LAB WITH LABORATORY

34:13 TESTING BEING NECESSARY TO

34:15 ACTUALLY ENFORCE IT JUST LIKE

34:20 UM TAKING A COCAINE FOR THE

34:22 REST.

34:23 NO.

34:24 THEY HAVE TO THEY GO TO THE

34:26 LAB AND THEY TEST IT.

34:28 WOULD THAT HAVE TO BE.

34:32 THE SAME IN THIS CASE?

34:34 IT COULD WELL BE THAT THAT WE

34:37 WOULD AND WE'VE WE'VE DONE THAT

34:38 WITH CERTAIN NICOTINE PRODUCTS

34:41 TO TEST THEIR YOU KNOW HOW MANY

34:43 MILLIGRAMS OF NICOTINE

34:45 E-CIGARETTES HAD IN THEM EARLY

34:46 ON BEFORE THERE.

34:46 WAS MUCH MUCH.

34:47 DATA I WOULD SAY THAT'S AN AREA

34:51 WHERE IT WOULD BE HELPFUL FOR

34:52 THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO BE

34:54 INVOLVED IN SETTING, UH,

34:56 SETTING UP THE FLOOR SO THAT WE

34:58 KNOW THAT IF YOU'RE UM YOU

35:02 KNOW, IF YOU'RE ABOVE A CERTAIN

35:04 AMOUNT YOU'RE YOU CAN'T BE ON

35:06 THE SHELVES.

35:07 I WOULD UM YEAH, I WOULD SAY IF

35:10 WE DO SORT OF SET A TIERED UM

35:14 APPROACH WE WOULD NEED TO KEEP

35:17 A CLOSE EYE ON THE PRODUCTS

35:21 THAT ARE APPROVED TRYING TO BE

35:23 AS CLOSE TO THE LINE AS

35:24 POSSIBLE AND MAKE SURE THAT

35:26 THE, UM, ANY INSPECTORS OR LAW

35:29 ENFORCEMENT, UM STAFF WHO ARE

35:31 OUT IN THE.

35:32 FIELD KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR.

35:36 SO YOUR PREFERENCE WOULD BE FOR

35:38 THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO SET A

35:42 NATIONAL STANDARD.

35:45 I THINK ACKNOWLEDGING THAT YOU

35:46 KNOW, THESE PRODUCTS ESPECIALLY

35:48 THE THE HIGHLY CONCENTRATED AND

35:51 SYNTHESIZED PRODUCTS ARE UH, A

35:53 PUBLIC HEALTH HAZARD THAT THAT

35:56 IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR THEM TO BE

35:58 TREATED AS SUCH AND TO SET THE

36:00 RECOGNITION THAT THERE'S NO

36:02 ACCEPTABLE MEDICAL USE FOR THEM

36:03 AND UM, THAT WOULD HELP A LOT

36:07 AT THE LOCAL LEVEL WHERE WE'RE

36:09 STILL HERE TO UM TO ENSURE

36:13 COMPLIANCE.

36:13 BUT IF THERE WERE UM A STANDARD

36:17 SET FOR THE COUNTRY THAT THAT

36:19 COULD BE HELPFUL.

36:21 SO IN THIS ORDINANCE IT ALLOWS

36:23 NATURAL LEAVE LEAVE POWER TO

36:28 QUALIFY EXCELLENCE WHILE

36:32 PROHIBITING PRODUCTS IN WHICH

36:33 NATURALLY OCCURRING

36:36 CONSTITUENTS HAVE BEEN

36:37 UNOFFICIALLY COUNTED,

36:40 CONCENTRATED OR ALTERED.

36:42 IS THAT DISTINCTION

36:44 SUFFICIENTLY CLEAR FOR

36:45 RETAILERS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT

36:46 THEY CAN AND CANNOT SELL AND

36:49 FOR THE CITY TO ENFORCE?

36:52 I WOULD SUGGEST I MEAN I THINK

36:54 THE ANSWER IS THAT THIS THIS

36:56 WILL BE CHALLENGING WITH A

36:57 RANGE OF PRODUCTS THAT LOOK

36:59 ANYTHING LIKE UM YOU KNOW

37:02 TEABAGS TO TO SORT OF SOME

37:04 OF THE PRODUCTS THAT WE'RE MORE

37:05 FAMILIAR WITH.

37:07 UM SO I.

37:09 AGAIN I THINK IT'S.

37:10 UM IT'S INCUMBENT ON AGENCIES

37:12 THAT ARE ENFORCING TO TO BE

37:14 ABLE TO TO GIVE THAT GUIDANCE

37:17 AND UM AND I THINK THERE'S A

37:19 DIALOG WITH THE UM WITH THE

37:23 MANUFACTURERS THAT PRODUCE

37:25 THESE PRODUCTS THAT IF UM IF

37:29 THEY WANT TO SELL IN THIS

37:30 MARKET THEY THEY NEED TO HAVE A

37:32 COMPLIANT, UM UH, COMPLIANT

37:36 PRODUCTS.

37:38 I'VE GOT TO 20S ONE LAST

37:41 QUESTION.

37:41 THE ORDINANCE INCLUDES AGE

37:44 RESTRICTIONS BUT DOESN'T APPEAR

37:46 TO ESTABLISH A COMPREHENSIVE

37:48 CAMPUS AND AND COMPREHENSIVE

37:51 TESTING OR LABELING SUPERVISOR.

37:56 CONSIDER INCORPORATING ANY

37:58 OF THESE ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS

38:00 .

38:02 I WOULD I WOULD WELCOME

38:03 CONVERSATION ON THAT.

38:05 I DO THINK SOME OF THOSE THINGS

38:06 ARE CHALLENGING TO DO AT THE

38:08 LOCAL LEVEL.

38:10 UM, BUT I THINK THE BUILDING IN

38:13 THE THE ABILITY TO TEST TO

38:15 CONFIRM IS IS FAIR.

38:17 I ALSO THINK THERE'S A MORE

38:18 GENERAL POINT PROBABLY ABOUT

38:20 UM, THE ABILITY TO TO ISSUE

38:24 REGULATIONS THAT SPELL OUT SOME

38:25 OF THE MORE THE MORE SPECIFIC

38:27 NUANCES THAT ARE JUST HARD TO

38:29 LEGISLATE ONCE.

38:31 WHAT ABOUT THE AGE RESTRICTION?

38:35 I THINK IT'S AN APPROPRIATE WAY

38:37 OF OF THINKING ABOUT THE

38:40 PRODUCTS THAT MAY NOT PRESENT

38:42 AS MUCH OF A PUBLIC HEALTH

38:44 HARM.

38:45 UH, AND AGAIN, I THINK IT'S

38:46 IT'S ALSO FAIR TO LOOK AT HOW

38:48 OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE HANDLING

38:50 PRODUCTS THAT AREN'T OUTRIGHT

38:51 BANNED, ARE THEY?

38:53 UM ARE THEY DO AGE RESTRICTIONS

38:55 ARE CHALLENGING TO ENFORCE BUT

38:57 DOES REQUIRE AN INVESTMENT

39:00 OF RESOURCES TO MAKE SURE THAT

39:01 YOU'RE YOU KNOW, DOING

39:02 COMPLIANCE CHECKS AND THINGS

39:04 AND AND HOLDING RETAILERS TO

39:06 IT.

39:07 SO THERE ARE UM, YOU KNOW,

39:10 THERE IMPLEMENTATION REASONS

39:12 WHY THAT'S HARD AND AGAIN WHY A

39:15 A COMPLETE BAN IS EASIER BUT

39:17 MIGHT NOT GET AT SOME OF THE

39:18 NUANCE OF WHERE THE THE RISK

39:20 IS.

39:20 THANK YOU DEPUTY COMMISSIONER.

39:22 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

39:23 THANK YOU, COUNCILOR CULPEPPER.

39:24 UM, JUST WANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT

39:26 WE'VE BEEN JOINED BY

39:26 COUNCIL EARL.

39:27 UM, I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION

39:28 JUST FOLLOWING HIS, UH, HIS

39:30 QUESTION BECAUSE IT WAS, UM,

39:31 GOING TO BE A PART OF MY UM MY

39:33 PORTION HERE BUT THE THE

39:34 TESTING AND, UM, UNDERSTANDING

39:37 THAT AND I'M STILL LEARNING

39:38 THIS IN REAL TIME SO I

39:39 APOLOGIZE AT THE SEEMS

39:40 ELEMENTARY BUT THE NATURAL LEAF

39:42 LEAF POWDER TEA CERTAIN

39:43 EXTRACTS ALL OF THAT WE WOULD

39:45 STILL THEORETICALLY HAVE TO

39:46 TEST THAT FOR POTENCY.

39:47 IS THAT CORRECT?

39:49 WE WOULD HAVE THE.

39:50 I WOULD HOPE THAT WE WOULD HAVE

39:52 THE UM THE ABILITY TO I THINK A

39:55 BETTER OUTCOME IS THAT UM

39:57 RETAILERS ARE HELD TO A OR THAT

40:00 MANUFACTURERS ARE HELD TO A

40:01 STANDARD WHERE THEY SORT

40:02 OF MAKE UP, YOU KNOW, IF IF THE

40:05 FEDERAL OR EVEN STATE OR LOCAL

40:09 AMOUNT WAS SET AT 0.05 THAT

40:12 THEY'RE REQUIRED TO SAY WHAT

40:14 SAY WHAT THE PERCENTAGES WHAT

40:17 THE CONCENTRATION IS ON THE

40:18 PACKAGING UM NAME THAT INCLUDES

40:20 THESE CHEMICALS AND UM AND THEN

40:25 THAT THERE ARE ALWAYS BAD

40:28 ACTORS BUT THAT WOULD AT LEAST

40:29 REMOVE UH THE BASELINE

40:31 OF NEEDING TO CREATE AN

40:33 INVENTORY FROM SCRATCH OF EVERY

40:35 PRODUCT AND THAT'S

40:36 CONCENTRATION OKAY.

40:37 AND WHAT YOU WERE SAYING IS

40:38 THAT THE FEDS HAVEN'T COME DOWN

40:40 WITH ANY SPECIFIC GUIDANCE

40:41 ABOUT WHAT THE RIGHT POTENCY

40:44 IS.

40:45 IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S LIKE IT'S

40:46 IN PROCESS AND AND THE EXACT

40:47 AMOUNT AND OTHER COMMENTERS UH

40:51 FROM THE THE NEXT PANEL MAY MAY

40:53 HAVE MORE OF THE BACKGROUND BUT

40:55 I THINK THAT'S WHERE SOME

40:57 OF THE UM THE DELAY IN THE

40:59 FEDERAL RULEMAKING IS COMING

41:01 FROM THIS IS THAT OKAY.

41:02 THAT.

41:03 DECISION MAKING AROUND THE

41:04 CONCENTRATION.

41:04 AND WITH THE CANNABIS UM

41:06 CANNABINOIDS.

41:07 DID WE WAS ISD.

41:08 THE LEADING ADMINISTRATIVE

41:09 AGENCY AS IT RELATES TO TESTING

41:12 OR DID WE IS THAT A DID WE DO

41:14 LOCALIZED TESTING.

41:15 YEAH.

41:16 SO WITH WITH K2 IT WAS IT

41:18 WAS AN OUTRIGHT BAN AND IT WAS

41:19 ENFORCED BY.

41:20 BPD OKAY.

41:22 AND I THINK THERE WAS UH UM YOU

41:25 KNOW A STRONG PUBLIC AWARENESS

41:28 PUSH AT THE START I DON'T

41:30 RECALL DATA ON YOU KNOW, WITH

41:33 WITH EVERY YOU KNOW, REGULATORY

41:36 EXERCISE WE WE STRIVE FOR

41:38 COMPLIANCE RATHER THAN UM THAN

41:41 PUNISHMENT.

41:42 BUT YEAH, I DON'T HAVE AS MUCH

41:44 OF THAT DATA ON ME.

41:45 THANK YOU.

41:45 UM I APOLOGIZE COUNCIL ORAL.

41:47 DID YOU DID YOU WANT TO ASK HIM

41:49 QUESTIONS?

41:49 DID YOU HAVE ANY OR YOU CAN

41:50 PROVIDE ANY REMARKS THAT YOU

41:51 MAKE.

41:51 AT THIS POINT?

41:52 UH THANK YOU CHAIR.

41:53 AND THANK YOU,

41:54 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD.

41:54 UM, FOR UH, HAVING A HEARING

41:57 PREVIOUSLY ON THIS AND THEN

41:59 BRINGING THIS LANGUAGE INTO AN

42:00 ORDINANCE FORM.

42:01 UM, RIGHT NOW I DON'T HAVE ANY

42:02 QUESTIONS HERE TO LISTEN AND

42:04 LEARN.

42:04 UM, BUT WANT TO BE SUPPORTIVE

42:07 OF THE ORDINANCE, UM, TO MAKE

42:09 SURE THAT, UH, WE ARE DOING

42:10 EVERYTHING WE CAN ON THE CITY

42:12 LEVEL.

42:12 UH, SO THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE

42:13 AND AGAIN, THANK YOU TO MY

42:15 COLLEAGUES FOR THEIR WORK ON

42:16 THIS TOPIC.

42:17 THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

42:18 UM, OKAY, I'LL GIVE MYSELF, UH

42:20 ,SIX MINUTES SINCE I TOOK UP

42:22 SOME SPACE HERE.

42:23 UM, SO MY I DO AGREE THAT WE

42:26 NEED TO PUT SOMETHING FORWARD

42:27 AND I WANT TO SUPPORT THE LEAD

42:28 SPONSOR HERE.

42:30 MY GOAL IS TO POTENTIALLY

42:31 CONVERT IT INTO A CONTINGENT

42:32 FRAMEWORK SHOULD THE, UM, THE

42:35 LAWSUIT BE SUCCESSFUL AND I

42:38 DON'T.

42:38 KNOW OF AND THIS IS MY MY NEXT

42:40 QUESTION TO YOU I DON'T KNOW

42:41 BEYOND THE UM THE LEGISLATION

42:43 THAT I THINK.

42:45 IT IS IN COMMITTEE RIGHT.

42:46 NOW TO REGULATE THIS.

42:48 I DON'T KNOW IF THE STATE'S.

42:50 READY TO PROMULGATE ANY RULES.

42:52 SO I DO AGREE THAT WE.

42:54 SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING ON THE

42:55 BOOKS BUT MAKING IT INTO

42:56 SOMETHING THAT WILL ALIGN.

42:57 WITH STATE.

42:59 REGS SHOULD IT UM SHOULD.

43:00 THEY.

43:00 ULTIMATELY COME DOWN?

43:02 UM DO.

43:02 YOU HAVE.

43:03 WHAT ARE YOUR.

43:03 CONVERSATIONS BEEN WITH THE

43:04 STATE WITH.

43:04 DPA OR UM CHIEF.

43:07 GOLDSTEIN I DON'T KNOW WHAT HIS

43:09 EXACT TITLE IS BUT.

43:10 WHAT IS THEIR OUTLOOK.

43:12 AND HOW CAN WE ALIGN THIS

43:13 ORDINANCE WITH POTENTIALLY WHAT

43:15 COULD HAPPEN?

43:15 YEAH.

43:16 SO I KNOW COMMISSIONER

43:17 COUTU.

43:18 AND.

43:18 COMMISSIONER GOLDSTEIN HAVE

43:19 HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH.

43:21 I'VE I'VE SORT OF BEEN UM I'VE

43:23 ENGAGED WITH THEIR OFFICE

43:25 OF LOCAL AND REGIONAL HEALTH

43:27 FOR ALL THE YOU KNOW, TECHNICAL

43:28 ASSISTANCE AND UM AND TRAINING

43:30 A LOT OF THESE ORDERS ARE, YOU

43:33 KNOW, ISSUED BY DPI BUT THEY

43:34 EXPECT UH, A LOT OF HELP IN

43:36 ENFORCING THEM AT THE LOCAL

43:37 LEVEL FROM LOCAL BOARDS

43:39 OF HEALTH.

43:39 SO AS I MENTIONED, WE'VE BEEN

43:41 UM WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT IT'S

43:44 MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY HAVE

43:46 RULEMAKING A RULEMAKING PATHWAY

43:48 AND THERE'S YOU I THINK THERE'S

43:51 MY SENSE IS THAT THERE'S A HOPE

43:53 THAT THIS WILL THIS WILL BY

43:55 ENOUGH TIME THAT UM, THAT'S

43:58 SOMETHING CAN HAPPEN IN THE

43:59 LEGISLATURE AND THAT.

44:01 SOME OF THESE.

44:02 POLICY DECISIONS CAN BE MADE

44:04 SORT OF NOT IN AN EXECUTIVE

44:07 POSTURE, UH, OR A EMERGENCY

44:09 ORDER POSTURE.

44:10 UM, SO I WOULD SAY AGAIN THAT

44:14 WE'RE SUPPORTIVE OF UM OF THE

44:17 EFFORT TO DO SOMETHING IN THE

44:19 SPACE.

44:19 I THINK THERE'S UM THERE'S

44:22 LIKELY AN OPPORTUNITY THAT

44:23 EITHER IN LEGISLATION OR

44:26 RULEMAKING THERE COULD BE SOME

44:27 MORE UM, A MORE NUANCED

44:30 FRAMEWORK AND FLEXIBILITIES FOR

44:32 ,YOU KNOW, ENFORCEMENT AT BOTH

44:34 THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL.

44:36 I DO.

44:37 APPRECIATE THE DPI.

44:39 UM.

44:41 UH, EXECUTIVE RULING HERE I

44:42 THINK BECAUSE.

44:43 THEY WERE.

44:43 GETTING SOME WITH.

44:44 THERE'S BEEN SO MUCH NEGATIVE.

44:46 IMPACT ALREADY IN OUR

44:47 COMMUNITIES.

44:47 UM, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE THE UM,

44:50 FAR.

44:50 REACHING POWERS.

44:51 THAT.

44:52 HAS IF THERE'S.

44:53 A PUBLIC.

44:53 HEALTH CRISIS THEY CAN JUST ACT

44:55 ACCORDINGLY AND SHUT IT DOWN.

44:56 UM, BUT WE UNDERSTAND I THINK

44:58 WE'RE ALL HERE AND, UM, REALIZE

45:00 THAT THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE

45:01 NUANCE TO THIS.

45:02 I AGAIN, I'M STILL LEARNING THE

45:03 .

45:04 DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SYNTHESIZED

45:06 AND UM.

45:07 AND AND NATURAL.

45:09 AND.

45:09 I THINK AS.

45:10 WE MOVE FORWARD IN THE

45:11 PROCESS.

45:12 UM I'LL OBVIOUSLY LEARN A

45:13 LITTLE BIT MORE.

45:14 MY MY MAIN.

45:15 CONCERN IS JUST YOU.

45:16 KNOW, IF WE DO PASS THESE.

45:17 RULES DOWN.

45:19 AND IT'S.

45:20 HERE AT THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL,

45:21 WHAT STOPS.

45:21 SOMEBODY FROM GOING.

45:22 INTO BROOKLINE OR CHELSEA OR

45:24 REVERE OR WHEREVER AND JUST

45:26 GETTING UM.

45:27 AND JUST.

45:29 PURCHASING THIS.

45:29 ANYWAY SO THAT'S.

45:30 WHY I.

45:31 THINK.

45:31 STATE REGS ARE ARE PREFERRED

45:32 BUT I DON'T SEE ANY ISSUE WITH

45:34 PASSING SOMETHING.

45:35 DOWN AT THE CITY LEVEL.

45:37 UM THERE ARE SOME THINGS HERE

45:38 WHERE YOU KNOW I WANT IT IT HAS

45:40 BPD BEING THE LEAD ENFORCEMENT

45:42 AGENCY.

45:42 YOU KNOW WHAT ROLE.

45:43 WILL PLAY?

45:47 UM WHAT ROLE DO YOU ENVISION

45:49 ISDN LICENSING.

45:50 PLAYING IF YOU CAN SPEAK TO.

45:51 THAT A LITTLE BIT.

45:52 IF WE WERE TO PASS DOWN THESE

45:54 RULES.

45:54 SURE.

45:55 SO I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR

45:56 ISD BUT I CAN SAY IN IN THE WAY

45:59 THAT DELEGATES ENFORCEMENT

46:02 AUTHORITY TO LOCAL BOARDS

46:03 OF HEALTH IN BOSTON, THE DUTIES

46:05 OF LOCAL BOARDS OF HEALTH ARE

46:06 SORT OF SHARED BETWEEN BBFC AND

46:08 ISD.

46:08 SO THE ASPECTS OF IT RELATED TO

46:10 THE FOOD CODE COULD BE ENFORCED

46:12 BY ISD.

46:13 I ACTUALLY THINK THAT IS LESS

46:16 OF THE BULK OF THE.

46:18 PRODUCT IN.

46:19 BOSTON BECAUSE THEY FOCUS ON

46:21 PREPARED FOODS AND I JUST DON'T

46:23 TO MY KNOWLEDGE I DON'T THINK

46:24 THAT THAT'S A BIG CREATE THEM

46:26 MARKET.

46:28 UM BUT THEY ARE THEY'RE

46:29 SIMILARLY AUTHORIZED TO US TO

46:32 TO ENFORCE THROUGH LOCAL PUBLIC

46:33 HEALTH STATUTES.

46:35 UM THE LAW ENFORCEMENT

46:37 QUESTIONS I WOULD DEFER TO BPD

46:39 .

46:39 BECAUSE IT IS A LITTLE UNIQUE

46:41 IN THAT THE ORDER MADE CREATE A

46:44 SCHEDULE ONE SUBSTANCE BUT THEN

46:46 DIDN'T ASSIGN IT A CLASS.

46:48 SO YOU TALKED ABOUT THE STATE

46:49 ORDER.

46:49 GOD BLESS YOU.

46:50 YES.

46:50 THAT'S TO SAY THE STATE'S

46:51 ORDERS ARE DOING ASSIGN IT TO

46:54 CLASS A, B, C OR D.

46:56 SO I THINK THAT MEANS THAT YOU

46:58 CAN'T NECESSARILY BE ARRESTED

46:59 FOR DRUG POSSESSION IN THE SAME

47:02 WAY.

47:03 UM BUT IT IS STILL A CRIMINAL

47:05 OFFENSE.

47:07 UM SO.

47:08 I, I THINK THERE ARE PROBABLY

47:14 OTHER WAYS THAT ENFORCEMENT

47:16 COULD BE COULD BE STRUCTURED

47:18 BUT IN BOSTON I THINK IN SHORT

47:20 THERE COULD BE A ROLE FOR FOR

47:21 BPD.

47:22 I THINK UM THERE COULD

47:24 CERTAINLY BE A ROLE FOR US IN

47:26 REFERRING NON VIOLATORS THAT

47:28 WE'RE YOU KNOW WHEN WE DO OUR

47:30 INSPECTIONS WE DO THAT A LOT

47:31 WITH OTHER PRODUCTS THAT WE

47:32 KNOW ARE ILLEGAL TO POSSESS OR

47:34 SO THAT WE WILL REFER OVER TO

47:36 BPD.

47:37 UM SO I WOULD ENVISION THAT FOR

47:38 A LOT OF OUR UM A LOT OF OUR

47:40 TOBACCO.

47:41 INSPECTION WORK.

47:43 UM AND AGAIN I THINK IF IF THE

47:47 UM IF THE STATE LAW CALLED FOR

47:49 A ROBUST STATE LEVEL

47:51 ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM.

47:52 THEN WE WOULD ENGAGE THERE AS

47:54 WELL.

47:56 UM, YOU HAD MENTIONED

47:58 COMMERCIAL MANUFACTURING.

47:59 I THINK THERE'S.

48:00 A.

48:00 WAY TO DOES THIS ORDINANCE

48:03 INCLUDE COMMERCIAL

48:04 MANUFACTURING AND DISTRIBUTION

48:04 OR IS IT JUST.

48:06 UM LIMITING FOR POSSESSION AND

48:08 USE?

48:08 YEAH I DON'T THINK IT HAS

48:11 MANUFACTURING.

48:11 OKAY.

48:12 THEN WE YEAH WE CAN PUT

48:13 MANUFACTURING.

48:13 I JUST WANTED TO CALL THAT OUT

48:14 BECAUSE WE HAD.

48:15 MENTIONED THAT BUT YEAH

48:15 COMMERCIAL.

48:15 MANUFACTURING DISTRIBUTION

48:17 ADVERTISING.

48:17 AND SALE.

48:20 UM WE.

48:21 CAN PUT THAT IN THERE.

48:22 BUT THAT'S MY TIME.

48:24 UM SORRY MY LAST QUESTION IS.

48:26 WE WERE SUPPOSED TO GET

48:27 ADDITIONAL.

48:27 RESOURCES TO.

48:28 ENFORCE THIS BAN UM, OR

48:31 EMERGENCY ORDER.

48:31 THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO GIVE US

48:33 HOLD ON A SECOND.

48:33 RECEIVE ADDITIONAL ENFORCEMENT

48:35 AUTHORITY.

48:36 AND THEN ALSO EXPANDING PUBLIC

48:38 EDUCATION OVERDOSE.

48:39 INFORMATION TREATMENT

48:39 RESOURCES.

48:40 FOR.

48:40 PEOPLE WHO USE KRATOM.

48:41 OR EXPERIENCED DEPENDANCE AND

48:43 WITHDRAWAL.

48:43 WHAT WE.

48:44 ACTUALLY GET FROM THE STATE

48:44 HAVE WE GOTTEN IT YET?

48:46 HAVE WE DEPLOYED IT?

48:47 I DON'T.

48:48 KNOW THAT WE'VE RECEIVED ANY

48:50 FINANCIAL RESOURCES, BUT A LOT

48:52 OF THOSE MATERIALS YOU KNOW,

48:53 TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE TYPE

48:54 OF MATERIALS ARE WERE MADE

48:57 AVAILABLE IMMEDIATELY.

48:58 WE'VE WE'VE DONE UM WE'VE DONE

49:01 A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT ROUNDS

49:03 OF PUBLIC AWARENESS AROUND

49:05 KRATOM BUT UM I WOULDN'T SAY

49:07 THAT WE'VE RECEIVED ANY SORT

49:11 OF STAFFING INCREASE OR

49:12 ANYTHING LIKE THAT TO SUPPORT.

49:13 OKAY THANK YOU.

49:15 AND WE'LL GO DO UH A SECOND

49:18 ROUND IF FOLKS WANT UM I'LL

49:20 PASS IT TO THE LEAD SPONSOR AND

49:22 THEN WE'LL DO ANOTHER ROUND

49:24 OF COUNSELORS IF THEY HAVE MORE

49:25 QUESTIONS AND THEN WE'LL

49:25 ACTUALLY I SAID PUBLIC

49:26 TESTIMONY TESTIMONY WILL HAPPEN

49:28 AT THE END.

49:29 BUT WE HAVE SO MUCH PUBLIC

49:30 TESTIMONY PEOPLE WAITING ON.

49:31 LINE THAT WILL DISPERSE AT

49:32 THROUGHOUT THE HEARING.

49:33 SO AFTER QUESTIONS WILL GO TO

49:34 PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

49:35 AND THEN WE HAVE A SECOND

49:36 PANEL.

49:37 UM COUNCILOR FITZGERALD, YOU

49:37 HAVE THE FLOOR FOR FOUR

49:38 MINUTES.

49:39 THANK YOU.

49:39 MADAM CHAIR.

49:40 I'LL KEEP THIS SHORT BECAUSE I.

49:41 KNOW WE DO HAVE A LOT

49:41 OF TESTIMONY.

49:42 I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE.

49:42 DO GET.

49:43 TO IT, BUT, UM, I ACTUALLY

49:45 THINK ABOUT SOME OF YOU JUST.

49:46 MENTIONED ABOUT WHAT FOLKS

49:47 FOLKS COULD STILL GO TO

49:48 BROOKLINE OR.

49:49 EVEN IF WE HAVE IT ON THE.

49:50 BOOKS AND ACTUALLY THE MAYOR

49:51 OF.

49:51 LOWELL CALLED ME SEVERAL

49:52 MONTHS.

49:52 AGO UH, AND SAID THEY HAVE A.

49:55 SIMILAR ORDINANCE ON THEIR

49:56 BOOKS.

49:56 BUT THE SURROUNDING.

49:57 TOWNS AROUND THEM THAT DO NOT.

49:59 AND IT POSES A THREAT AND WHAT.

50:01 HIS ACTUAL.

50:02 UH, CALLING TO ME WAS ABOUT WAS

50:04 SAYING PLEASE MOVE.

50:05 FORWARD AS A LEADER IN THE CITY

50:06 WITH BOSTON AS A LEADER IN THE

50:08 STATE SO.

50:09 THAT THE OTHER.

50:09 CITIES AND.

50:10 TOWNS AROUND.

50:11 US.

50:11 THROUGHOUT THE COMMONWEALTH

50:12 COULD MAYBE FOLLOW SUIT.

50:14 AND SO I DO TAKE THAT UH, THAT

50:16 THAT SERIOUSLY, UH, ESPECIALLY

50:18 WHEN YOU GET CALLS FROM OTHER

50:19 PARTS OF THE STATE SAYING HEY,

50:20 WE NEED YOU GUYS TO LEAD ON

50:22 THIS.

50:23 UM, AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE

50:25 AS A BODY UH, ARE DOING.

50:27 UM, SO WITH THAT, UM, I DON'T

50:30 HAVE ANY FURTHER QUESTIONS.

50:32 I THINK I MIGHT HAVE SOME MORE

50:33 FOR THE SECOND PANEL.

50:34 UH, BUT I JUST WANT TO THANK

50:36 YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR

50:37 COOPERATION.

50:38 UH, MR MCCANN AT THE BOSTON

50:40 PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION TO TO

50:41 YOU AND ALL YOUR STAFF AND

50:42 DOCTOR OJUKWU TO UM AND LOOKING

50:44 FOR A REASONABLE WAY FORWARD

50:46 THAT WE CAN PROTECT THE UH OUR

50:49 CONSTITUENTS UM, FROM WHAT IS

50:51 UH YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE UH, AT

50:53 THIS POINT, UH, WHETHER THE

50:54 DATA SHOWS THAT OR NOT, UH, THE

50:56 SYNTHETIC USE IS DANGEROUS.

50:58 UM, AND IT IS BECOMING MORE

51:00 COMMONPLACE AMONG THOSE FACING

51:02 ADDICTION, UH, AND ACTUALLY

51:03 THROWING THEM FURTHER INTO THE

51:05 THROES OF ADDICTION AND, UM,

51:07 AND IT'S ONLY THAT MUCH HARDER

51:09 TO GET OUT AND SO, UM, I LOOK

51:11 FORWARD TO CONTINUE WORKING

51:12 WITH YOU AND THANK YOU VERY

51:13 MUCH, JIM.

51:14 THANK YOU.

51:15 THANK YOU,

51:15 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD.

51:16 UM, COUNCILOR FLYNN.

51:18 YEAH.

51:18 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR AGAIN

51:19 THANK YOU TO, UH, PJ FOR BEING

51:21 HERE FOR THE IMPORTANT WORK YOU

51:24 HAVE PROVIDED NOT JUST ON THIS

51:26 ISSUE BUT ON OTHER ISSUES, UM,

51:28 PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUES ACROSS THE

51:30 CITY ACROSS THE STATE.

51:32 IN MARCH I WROTE A LETTER TO

51:34 DOCTOR OJUKWU TO UM

51:37 SPECIFICALLY ON THIS ISSUE.

51:39 I JUST WANT TO TAKE ONE MINUTE

51:40 TO READ THIS LETTER INTO THE

51:42 RECORD.

51:42 DEAR DOCTOR OJUKWU TO I'M READY

51:46 TO RESPECTFULLY REQUEST A BAN

51:48 OF THE SALE OF KRATOM IN THE

51:49 CITY OF BOSTON.

51:50 CURRENTLY KRATOM IS ILLEGAL TO

51:52 BUY, SELL, POSSESS OR USE IN

51:56 ALABAMA, ARKANSAS, INDIANA,

51:58 RHODE ISLAND, VERMONT IN

52:01 WISCONSIN MORE LOCALLY IN 2025

52:04 THE MANUFACTURING, SALE AND

52:07 DISTRIBUTION OF KRATOM WAS

52:08 BANNED IN LOWELL, DRACUT AND

52:11 CHELMSFORD.

52:13 IN JANUARY, RESIDENTS REPORTED

52:14 THAT A STORE WAS SELLING

52:16 PRODUCTS INCLUDING KRATOM,

52:20 NITROUS OXIDE REFILLS, THC

52:24 PRODUCTS, THC PRODUCTS AND

52:28 SYNTHETIC URINE MARKED TO

52:29 DEFEAT DRUG TESTING.

52:31 KRATOM IS A.

52:35 PSYCHOACTIVE SUBSTANCE THAT CAN

52:38 POSSESS SIGNIFICANT PUBLIC

52:39 HEALTH CONCERNS.

52:40 THE U.S DRUG THE US FOOD AND

52:44 DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS WARNED

52:45 THAT KRATOM CAN LEAD TO

52:47 DEPENDANCE AND WITHDRAWAL

52:47 SYMPTOMS SIMILAR TO OPIATES

52:49 INCLUDING IRRITABILITY,

52:52 INSOMNIA, MUSCLE ACHES AND

52:53 NAUSEA.

52:54 REGULAR USE CAN ALSO HAS ALSO

52:56 BEEN LINKED TO LIVER CHALLENGES

52:59 ,SEIZURES, HEART COMPLICATIONS

53:01 AND THE RISK INCREASES WHEN

53:04 KRATOM IS MIXED WITH OTHER

53:06 DRUGS IN ALCOHOL OR ALCOHOL.

53:09 AS A RESULT, I AM RESPECTFULLY

53:11 REQUESTING THAT THE BOSTON

53:12 PUBLIC HEALTH COMMISSION TAKE

53:13 THE NECESSARY STEPS TO BAN THE

53:15 SALE OF CREATIVE IN THE CITY

53:16 OF BOSTON AND I WROTE THIS TO

53:18 DOCTOR OJUKWU IN MARCH 9TH

53:21 2026.

53:21 I JUST WANTED TO GET THAT ON

53:23 THE RECORD UM, BECAUSE I KNOW

53:25 SOME OF THE SOME OF THOSE

53:27 SUBJECTS THAT WE DISCUSSED UM

53:29 THAT I ASKED QUESTIONS ON UM I

53:32 COULD HAVE PROVIDED A LITTLE

53:33 BIT MORE BACKGROUND

53:34 INFORMATION.

53:36 UM, SO I THOUGHT IT WAS

53:37 IMPORTANT TO GET THIS ON THE

53:38 RECORD, BUT I JUST WANT TO

53:40 FOLLOW UP ON WHAT

53:42 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD MENTIONED

53:43 AND I AGREE WITH THEM THAT WHEN

53:45 WHEN LOWELL UM BANDED SO DID IN

53:49 DRAKE AND CHELMSFORD WHICH ARE

53:50 NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES THEY'RE

53:52 UP IN THE AIR NOT SURE MY WIFE

53:53 IS MY WIFE IS FROM LOWELL.

53:55 UM I KNOW THAT AREA VERY WELL

53:58 AND I THINK COUNCIL CUT AS

54:00 APART TO MENTION IT AS WELL.

54:01 BUT IF IT IS.

54:02 BANNED IN BOSTON AND NOT IN

54:04 OTHER.

54:05 AREAS CHELSEA, WINTHROP,

54:07 REVERE, SAUGUS, QUINCY,

54:10 BRAINTREE BUT WHAT IMPACT DOES

54:12 THAT HAVE IF IF THE STATE

54:15 DOESN'T GO FORWARD WITH THAT?

54:17 YEAH BECAUSE IT'S A GREAT

54:19 QUESTION.

54:19 THERE'S ALWAYS RISK THAT YOU

54:22 KNOW PEOPLE WILL JUST CROSS.

54:24 THE BORDER INTO A

54:25 NEIGHBORING TOWN TO PURCHASE.

54:27 UM, WE'VE SEEN THAT WITH

54:29 CERTAIN TOBACCO.

54:30 CONTROL RESTRICTIONS THAT WE'VE

54:31 PASSED BEFORE THE STATE AND

54:33 OTHERS HAVE I'VE SEEN ONE THAT.

54:37 THEY BECAUSE A LOT OF THE

54:38 CONSUMPTION PATTERNS OF THESE

54:40 PRODUCTS ARE YOU KNOW, THEY'RE

54:41 IN CONVENIENCE STORES SO

54:42 THEY'RE SORT OF YOU.

54:44 KNOW.

54:44 THEY ARE PURCHASED WHERE PEOPLE

54:47 LIVE AND IF IT'S JUST THAT MUCH

54:49 HARDER TO TO GET THE PRODUCT

54:51 THAT THE USE WILL WILL

54:52 GRADUALLY DECREASE.

54:54 I THINK MORE IMPORTANTLY THOUGH

54:56 IS THE THE SORT.

54:57 OF DYNAMIC.

54:58 THAT YOU'RE THAT YOU'RE ALL

54:59 I THINK TOUCHING UPON IS THAT

55:01 ONCE YOU HAVE THE LARGEST CITY

55:03 IN THE STATE.

55:04 UM.

55:05 TAKE AN ACTION IT'S IT'S

55:08 EASIER FOR THAT TO BE SORT.

55:10 OF THE.

55:11 DEFAULT AND FOR THE AND FOR

55:13 STATE BILLS TO TO PASS.

55:15 WE'VE SEEN THAT WITH WITH A LOT

55:16 OF OTHER THINGS THAT BOSTON HAS

55:18 DONE EITHER.

55:19 AS A BOARD OF HEALTH REGULATION

55:21 OR.

55:21 ORDINANCE WHAT WHAT.

55:25 111 FINAL QUESTION UM.

55:28 ,IS.

55:29 KRATOM MORE POTENT THAN THC

55:35 AND OR UM WE WE DON'T

55:39 NECESSARILY TEST IF SOMEONE'S

55:42 DRIVING AN AUTOMOBILE AND

55:43 TESTING THEM FOR.

55:45 THC YOU DO FOR ALCOHOL NOT FOR

55:49 THC BUT HOW WOULD YOU KNOW IF

55:52 SOMEONE IS DRIVING AN

55:53 AUTOMOBILE THAT'S UNDER THE

55:54 INFLUENCE OF KRATOM.

55:57 ?

55:57 THAT'S THAT'S ANOTHER GREAT

55:59 QUESTION AND I DON'T HAVE AN

56:01 ANSWER TO IT BUT I WOULD I

56:02 WOULD ADVISE AGAINST DRIVING ON

56:07 ANY AMOUNT OF UH OF KRATOM.

56:10 BUT BUT WHEN YOU'RE WHEN YOU'RE

56:12 DRIVING AN AUTOMOBILE IF YOU

56:14 GET PULLED OVER THEY.

56:15 THEY AND.

56:16 THEY THEY SUSPECT YOU

56:18 OF DRIVING IMPAIRED THEY WOULD

56:21 GIVE YOU A A BREATHALYZER TEST

56:24 BUT THEY I DON'T BELIEVE THEY

56:26 WOULD GIVE YOU ANOTHER TEST

56:30 ANOTHER TEST OTHER THAN ALCOHOL

56:32 TO DETERMINE WHAT SUBSTANCES

56:33 ARE IN YOUR SYSTEM UNLESS

56:35 UNLESS YOU GO TO THE DOCTOR I

56:36 SHOULD GO TO THE HOSPITAL

56:37 RATHER UM, JUST I GUESS

56:39 SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT I I

56:40 WAS I OFTEN THINK ABOUT THAT

56:42 BECAUSE AGAIN AS A PROBATION

56:44 OFFICER THESE THESE ARE THESE

56:48 ARE PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERNS.

56:49 BUT AGAIN PJ THANK YOU FOR THE

56:51 IMPORTANT WORK YOU'RE DOING AND

56:52 THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR.

56:53 THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN.

56:55 UM COUNCILOR CULPEPER, DO YOU

56:56 HAVE.

56:57 UH MADAM CHAIR I DON'T HAVE

56:58 ANY QUESTIONS FOR DEPUTY MAYOR

57:00 TIME.

57:01 THANK YOU FOR COMING.

57:02 I DO HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE

57:03 SECOND PANEL.

57:05 OKAY.

57:05 UM, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER, YOU

57:06 ARE, UH, FREE TO STAY.

57:09 I WOULD HOPE YOU WOULD STAY TO

57:10 US TO THE PUBLIC THIS MORNING,

57:11 BUT APPRECIATE YOUR WORK.

57:12 THANK YOU SO MUCH.

57:13 UH, YOU ARE RELIEVED FOR LACK

57:14 OF A BETTER TERM.

57:15 SO, UM, WE'LL NOW HEAR FROM

57:17 PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

57:19 WE HAVE A LOT OF FOLKS SIGNED

57:21 UP AND THEN WE'LL GO TO OUR

57:22 PANEL IF OUR PANELS WANT TO

57:24 JUST COME DOWN AND TAKE A SEAT

57:25 HERE WHILE WE, UM, LISTEN TO

57:27 PUBLIC TESTIMONY, THE NEXT

57:29 PANEL WILL CONSIST OF KIM UM

57:32 HELLO.

57:32 SENIOR FELLOW ON PUBLIC POLICY

57:34 FROM THE AMERICAN FREEDOM

57:35 ASSOCIATION SHELDON BRADSHAW

57:37 WHO IS THE FDA REGULATORY

57:39 COUNCILOR.

57:39 UM, WHICH IS GREAT BECAUSE I

57:41 HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT UH,

57:42 FEDERAL REGS, UM, BOTANICALS

57:44 FOR BETTER HEALTH AND WELLNESS.

57:46 WE ACTUALLY WE ALSO HAVE

57:47 MATTHEW LOWE WHO'S A VIRTUAL

57:49 PARTICIPANT.

57:49 HE'S THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

57:50 OF THE GLOBAL CREATE EMRS UH

57:52 COALITION.

57:52 EXCUSE ME, BUT FOR NOW WE'LL GO

57:54 TO PUBLIC TESTIMONY I WILL

57:55 WHAT'S THE FIRST FIVE?

57:57 UM, WE HAVE CHRISTOPHER DEENEY

58:00 ,ASHLEY DAVIDSON, MISTY BROWN

58:04 WILLIAM JEFFREY REAGAN AND

58:06 BRITTANY SEFTON.

58:08 PLEASE GET READY TO TO TESTIFY

58:10 FOR TWO MINUTES AND WE DO HAVE

58:12 A LOT OF PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

58:13 SO JUST ASKING UM IF YOU CAN

58:15 RESPECT OTHERS WHO ARE ON THE

58:16 CALL WHO WANT THEIR VOICES TO

58:18 BE HEARD TO KEEP IT AT TWO

58:19 MINUTES BUT UM, CHRISTOPHER,

58:21 PLEASE, UH, TURN YOUR MIC ON.

58:23 JUST STATE YOUR NAME.

58:25 UH, AND AFFILIATION WHERE YOU

58:26 LIVE.

58:27 UH, AND YOU HAVE THE FLOOR IF

58:29 YOU CAN HEAR AND SEE US.

58:32 YES, I CAN SEE.

58:33 UH CAN YOU HEAR ME?

58:34 YES WE CAN.

58:35 THANK YOU.

58:36 HOW ARE YOU DOING TODAY?

58:37 UM.

58:38 I JUST WANTED TO SPEAK A LITTLE

58:39 BIT ABOUT NATURAL LEAVE KRATOM

58:40 AND SAY THANK YOU FOR THIS

58:42 ORDINANCE AND MAKING SURE THAT

58:43 NATURALLY KRATOM STAY SAFE.

58:45 I'VE BEEN A CONSUMER OF NATURAL

58:46 WE'VE CREATED SINCE 2015.

58:48 I MAKE A COUPLE CUPS OF TEA A

58:49 DAY AND IT'S BEEN A GAME

58:51 CHANGER IN MY OWN PERSONAL LIFE

58:53 AND I JUST SUPPORT THE

58:54 ORDINANCE.

58:54 I THANK YOU AND UH, I'LL GIVE

58:56 THE REST OF MY TIME FOR A LOT

58:58 OF THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT ARE

58:59 SPEAKING TODAY.

58:59 THANK YOU.

59:01 WONDERFUL.

59:02 WE LOVE THAT.

59:03 BUT EVERYBODY PLEASE FEEL FREE

59:05 TO TAKE UP YOUR TWO MINUTES AS

59:06 WELL.

59:07 UM ASHLEY DAVIDSON YOU NOW HAVE

59:09 THE FLOOR.

59:22 WELL, YOU HEAR ME?

59:24 WE CAN HEAR YOU JUST FINE.

59:25 OH, I'M SORRY ABOUT THAT.

59:26 COULDN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO

59:27 UNMUTE.

59:28 UM, I'M SPEAKING TODAY IN

59:29 SUPPORT OF REGULATION FOR

59:31 NATURAL KRATOM OVER TOTAL

59:32 PROHIBITION.

59:33 I THINK THE PROBLEM IS AND

59:34 ALWAYS HAS BEEN THE SYNTHETIC

59:35 DERIVATIVES.

59:36 THERE'S ALSO EVIDENCE THEY'VE

59:37 BEEN AROUND LONGER THAN WE

59:38 ORIGINALLY THOUGHT.

59:39 I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT REALLY

59:40 QUICK THAT SOMETHING THAT'S

59:41 BEEN BOTHERING ME THE FDA

59:42 DOESN'T APPROVE ANY

59:43 SUPPLEMENTS.

59:43 VITAMINS AREN'T FDA APPROVED

59:45 EITHER THAT DOESN'T MAKE THEM

59:46 DANGEROUS OR INEFFECTIVE.

59:47 AND THERE'S ALSO BEEN A DRUG

59:49 APPROVED FOR HUMAN TRIALS RIGHT

59:51 NOW MAJOR MAJOR DINING THERE IS

59:53 UH IT ABSOLUTELY HAS POTENTIAL

59:55 MEDICAL BENEFITS THAT ARE BEING

59:57 RECOGNIZED.

59:57 I'M ONE OF THE MANY PEOPLE

59:58 WHOSE LIFE WAS SAVED BY NATURAL

1:00:00 KRATOM AND A BAN DIRECTLY

1:00:01 ENDANGERS MY LIFE.

1:00:02 I'M DISABLED.

1:00:03 I SUFFER FROM AGORAPHOBIA,

1:00:04 PANIC DISORDER AND I WAS NEVER

1:00:06 ABLE TO FIND A MEDICATION THAT

1:00:07 WORKS.

1:00:08 THE ONLY THING THAT USED TO

1:00:09 HELP IT ALL UNFORTUNATELY WAS

1:00:10 ALCOHOL.

1:00:10 BUT ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO I

1:00:11 DEVELOPED ALCOHOL INDUCED

1:00:13 PANCREATITIS AND I ALMOST DIED.

1:00:14 THEY TOLD ME IF I EVER DRINK

1:00:15 AGAIN EVEN ONCE I WOULD DIE AND

1:00:17 I BELIEVE THEM BECAUSE I WAS

1:00:19 HOUSEBOUND I COULDN'T REALLY GO

1:00:20 TO MEETINGS AND I WAS PRECLUDED

1:00:21 FROM ANOTHER MEDICAL CONDITION

1:00:23 FROM THE VERY FEW PRESCRIPTIONS

1:00:24 AVAILABLE FOR ALCOHOL USE

1:00:25 DISORDER I WAS COMPLETELY ON MY

1:00:28 OWN.

1:00:28 THERE'S NO ALTERNATIVES FOR

1:00:29 ME WHEN SEARCHING FOR A SAFE

1:00:31 ALTERNATIVE I FOUND NATURAL

1:00:32 KRATOM AND NOT ONLY DID IT

1:00:33 COMPLETELY ELIMINATE MY ALCOHOL

1:00:35 CRAVINGS AND I NOW HAVE OVER

1:00:36 FIVE YEARS SOBER, IT ACTUALLY

1:00:38 STARTED HAVING A POSITIVE

1:00:39 EFFECT ON MY ANXIETY UP TO THIS

1:00:41 POINT I HAD FOUND NO MEDICATION

1:00:42 THAT WORKED WHICH DIDN'T MAKE

1:00:43 ME SO IMPAIRED I COULDN'T

1:00:44 FUNCTION ANYWAY UH ONCE I

1:00:46 REALIZED KRATOM WAS HELPING I

1:00:47 WAS ABLE TO START DOING

1:00:48 EXPOSURE THERAPY WHICH IS THE

1:00:49 TREATMENT FOR A PHOBIA AND I

1:00:50 MADE REAL PROGRESS.

1:00:51 I EVEN TOOK MY DAD TO MARSHALL

1:00:52 FAIR FOR HIS 80TH BIRTHDAY

1:00:54 RECENTLY BEFORE KRATOM I

1:00:55 THOUGHT I'D NEVER SEE HIM AGAIN

1:00:57 .

1:00:57 TO GO FROM COMPLETELY

1:00:58 HOUSEBOUND TO MAKING MEMORIES

1:00:59 AT THE FAIR WITH MY DAD IS

1:01:00 NOTHING SHORT OF A MIRACLE.

1:01:02 SO MANY DOCTORS FAILED TO HELP

1:01:04 ME.

1:01:04 THERE'S NO ALTERNATIVE FOR

1:01:05 ME TO RETURN TO.

1:01:06 THERE'S JUST NOTHING THAT WORKS

1:01:07 AT THIS PLANT THAT DOESN'T ALSO

1:01:08 CAUSE EXTREME FATIGUE OR

1:01:09 IMPAIRMENT.

1:01:10 IT DID THE SAME THING FOR MY

1:01:11 LITTLE SISTER WHO ALSO NEARLY

1:01:12 DIED FROM COMPLICATIONS AND

1:01:14 ALCOHOLISM AT ONE POINT IT WAS

1:01:16 SO BAD SHE WAS IN THE ICU.

1:01:17 I TOLD HER ABOUT NATURAL KRATOM

1:01:19 BECAUSE I KNEW IT WOULD SAVE

1:01:20 HER AND I WAS RIGHT.

1:01:21 SHE HAS SINCE RECOVERED AND

1:01:22 ALSO JUST RECENTLY PASSED FIVE

1:01:23 YEARS SOBER WITHOUT KRATOM OUR

1:01:25 MOTHER WOULD HAVE HAD TO BURY

1:01:26 BOTH OF HER CHILDREN THAT YEAR

1:01:27 WITH IT BANDS NOW I LIVE IN

1:01:29 FEAR EVERY DAY OF THE ALCOHOL

1:01:30 CRAVINGS COMING BACK.

1:01:31 THEY STILL SELL ALCOHOL IN THE

1:01:33 STORE BELOW MY APARTMENT IN MY

1:01:34 BUILDING THEY ALSO USED TO SELL

1:01:36 KRATOM AND FOR FIVE YEARS THAT

1:01:37 KEPT ME SAFE.

1:01:38 THIS BAND DID NOT MAKE THE

1:01:39 ALCOHOL DISAPPEAR OR THE

1:01:41 ILLICIT DRUGS AND IT DID NOT

1:01:42 CURE THE CHRONIC PAIN OF PEOPLE

1:01:44 WHO ARE SUFFERING.

1:01:45 IF I HAVE.

1:01:46 A BAD DAY.

1:01:47 YOU HAVE 50 MORE SAVINGS.

1:01:48 THANK YOU.

1:01:49 I'M GOING TO DIE.

1:01:50 THEY WERE VERY CLEAR.

1:01:51 AND I KNOW OTHERS ARE IN MY

1:01:53 SAME POSITION.

1:01:53 PLEASE LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE

1:01:54 TELLING YOU FREEDOM HELPS THEM.

1:01:56 WE'RE LIVE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE

1:01:57 OF NATURAL KRATOM AND WE MATTER

1:01:58 TO YOU.

1:01:59 THANK YOU THANK YOU ASHLEY

1:02:02 MISTY BROWN WILLIAM RAGAN AND

1:02:03 THEN BRITTANY SEFTON.

1:02:16 HEY CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME?

1:02:17 WE CAN OKAY UH MY NAME IS MISTY

1:02:20 BROWN AND I AM A.

1:02:22 KRATOM CONSUMER ADVOCATE

1:02:23 ACTIVIST FROM COLORADO.

1:02:25 I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT I'M.

1:02:26 SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF.

1:02:28 THE MASSACHUSETTS RESIDENTS

1:02:29 THAT CONSUME KRATOM THAT HAVE

1:02:31 NO IDEA THAT THIS HEARING IS

1:02:32 EVEN HAPPENING AND THEY AND IF

1:02:34 THEY DO KNOW THEY ARE SCARED TO

1:02:36 DEATH TO TESTIFY BECAUSE IT IS

1:02:38 NOW SCHEDULE ONE IN YOUR STATE.

1:02:41 I DO ALSO WANT.

1:02:42 TO SAY THAT I AM.

1:02:43 ONE OF THE ADVOCATES THAT ALSO

1:02:45 ATTENDED OVER 50 MASSACHUSETTS

1:02:47 CITY HEARINGS.

1:02:48 THE OVERALL OPINION IS THAT

1:02:50 THEY FELT LIKE THEY DIDN'T HAVE

1:02:51 ENOUGH OF THEIR RESOURCES TO

1:02:52 REGULATE, SO THEY JUST OUTRIGHT

1:02:53 BAN KRATOM.

1:02:55 UM, THEY ALMOST ALL SAID THAT

1:02:57 IF THE STATE COMES IN WITH THE

1:02:59 REGULATION THEY WILL AMEND I AM

1:03:03 A SURVIVOR OF THE

1:03:04 OVERPRESCRIBING OPIOID EPIDEMIC

1:03:06 .

1:03:07 I WAS ADDICTED TO MY PAIN PILLS

1:03:09 ,BENZODIAZEPINES AND MUSCLE

1:03:10 RELAXERS FOR 11 YEARS STRAIGHT

1:03:12 FROM 2008 TO 2019.

1:03:14 I ACCIDENTALLY FOUND HOLD

1:03:16 OF KRATOM IN JUNE OF 2019 BY

1:03:17 WALKING INTO A SMOKE SHOP WHERE

1:03:19 THE KRATOM WAS SITTING BEHIND

1:03:20 THE GLASS COUNTER.

1:03:22 I WAS CARDED YOU KNOW, IN ORDER

1:03:24 TO PURCHASE IT.

1:03:24 IT WAS NATURAL KRATOM BACK THEN

1:03:27 SYNTHETICS WEREN'T ON THE

1:03:28 MARKET.

1:03:30 I WILL ALSO SAY KRATOM NATURAL

1:03:33 KRATOM IS AN EXIT FROM

1:03:35 ADDICTIONS.

1:03:36 THESE THE SEVEN PRODUCTS AND

1:03:39 THE SYNTHETICS ARE AN ENTRANCE

1:03:40 INTO MONEY.

1:03:41 I WILL YIELD MY TIME FOR

1:03:42 SOMEBODY ELSE.

1:03:43 THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO

1:03:44 SPEAK.

1:03:45 THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR

1:03:46 STORY MISTY.

1:03:48 UM NEXT WE HAVE WILLIAM.

1:03:59 WILLIAM.

1:04:00 UH, REAGAN.

1:04:06 YOU MAY NOT BE ON UM OKAY.

1:04:09 WE'LL GO TO TO BRITTANY.

1:04:26 I KNOW, I KNOW CAN YOU HEAR ME?

1:04:28 WE CAN HEAR YOU.

1:04:29 OH, OKAY.

1:04:30 HI.

1:04:30 UM, MY NAME IS BRITTANY AND I

1:04:32 WAS INJURED IN HIGH SCHOOL

1:04:33 SPORTS.

1:04:34 WHICH LED TO A 15 YEAR, UM,

1:04:36 ADDICTION TO PRESCRIPTION

1:04:37 PAINKILLER.

1:04:39 UM, I DID THREE YEARS

1:04:41 MEDICATION ASSISTED TREATMENT.

1:04:42 WITH METHADONE.

1:04:43 AND AT 215MG OF METHADONE DAILY

1:04:47 I ENDED UP IN.

1:04:48 JAIL WHERE I SPENT 26 DAYS

1:04:49 DETOXING AND ON MY WAY HOME I

1:04:52 STOPPED AND GOT NATURAL KRATOM

1:04:54 FROM A COFFEE SHOP.

1:04:55 UM THAT WAS JULY 12TH, 2020 AND

1:04:58 UM IT'S BEEN JUST OVER SIX

1:05:00 YEARS WITHOUT ANY

1:05:01 PRESCRIPTIONS.

1:05:03 UM SO I ALSO WANTED TO ADDRESS

1:05:06 THE UH PSYCHOACTIVE THE WEED OR

1:05:10 MARIJUANA COMPARED TO KRATOM IN

1:05:13 MY OPINION MARIJUANA IS MUCH

1:05:15 MORE PSYCHOACTIVE THAN KRATOM.

1:05:18 I CAN CREATE THEM DURING THE

1:05:19 DAY AND FUNCTION FINE AND AT

1:05:21 NIGHT BUT LIKE I DON'T SMOKE

1:05:24 MARIJUANA UNTIL NIGHTTIME LIKE

1:05:27 JUST BEFORE BED BECAUSE I KNOW

1:05:29 I CAN'T FUNCTION OUT IN PUBLIC

1:05:30 LIKE THAT.

1:05:32 SO UM I DON'T KNOW IF THAT

1:05:34 HELPS AT ALL.

1:05:35 UH, WITH YOU I THINK THAT'S

1:05:38 ABOUT IT.

1:05:39 I JUST HOPE THAT YOU GUYS, UM,

1:05:43 LEAVE NATURAL KRATOM FOR THE

1:05:44 PEOPLE WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH

1:05:46 ADDICTION AND MAYBE ONE DAY

1:05:47 THEY WILL FIND SOME AND HAVE A

1:05:50 STORY LIKE MINE.

1:05:51 THANK YOU.

1:05:53 BRITTANY UM, WE'LL GO IN PERSON

1:05:55 .

1:05:55 WE HAVE ADAM KING WHO HAS

1:05:56 JOINED US.

1:05:57 UH, IF YOU WANT TO COME DOWN TO

1:05:59 THE MICROPHONE TO STATE YOUR

1:06:00 NAME, UM, WHERE YOU LIVE THAT

1:06:02 WOULD BE GREAT.

1:06:03 AND THEN WE'LL TYPE ONLINE FIVE

1:06:05 MORE INDIVIDUALS.

1:06:06 WE HAVE MIKE FASANO UM, AN

1:06:09 INDIVIDUAL UH, WHOSE NAME

1:06:12 BEGINS WITH AN S CHAD CORRAL,

1:06:17 HEIDI SIKORA AND JOSHUA C UH,

1:06:22 ADAM, YOU HAVE THE FLOOR FOR

1:06:23 TWO MINUTES.

1:06:24 THANK YOU.

1:06:24 HI.

1:06:25 UH, MY NAME IS ADAM KING AND MY

1:06:27 PARENTS AND I OWN A BUSINESS IN

1:06:30 ATTLEBORO THAT SELLS KRATOM AND

1:06:33 .

1:06:34 WE SEE.

1:06:35 MANY, MANY CUSTOMERS A DAY

1:06:37 COMING IN AND BUYING KRATOM.

1:06:39 AND WHEN WE TOLD THEM THAT

1:06:40 THERE'S, UH, THAT IT'S BEEN

1:06:42 BANNED, A LOT OF THEM JUST SAID

1:06:44 OH MY LIFE IS OVER BECAUSE

1:06:46 THEY'LL JUST GO BACK TO WAY

1:06:48 WORSE THINGS LIKE OXY OR

1:06:50 FENTANYL OR ANYTHING ELSE.

1:06:52 THEY'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING

1:06:53 TO GET RID OF THE PAIN.

1:06:55 AND UH, PEOPLE HAVE SAID THAT

1:06:58 THEY'VE HAD PAIN FOR DECADES

1:07:00 UNTIL I FOUND KRATOM.

1:07:02 UM.

1:07:03 IT DOESN'T WORK FOR EVERYBODY

1:07:04 LIKE ANYTHING IN LIFE.

1:07:06 UH, LIKE HOW YOU HAVE

1:07:08 COFFEE RIGHT THERE AS PART

1:07:09 OF THE COFFEE FAMILY.

1:07:10 IT'S JUST A PLANT.

1:07:11 LIKE IT'S JUST A PLANT THAT

1:07:13 THEY GRIND DOWN, UH, DEPENDING

1:07:15 ON WHICH STAGES AND ITS LIFE

1:07:17 CYCLE AND IT COULD BE MADE UH

1:07:20 UH, HAVE ENERGY OR PROVIDE, UH,

1:07:24 PAIN ALLEVIATION DEPENDING ON

1:07:26 WHEN IT'S HARVESTED.

1:07:28 UH THE SEVEN OH THAT THE WAY

1:07:30 THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY MADE IS BY

1:07:32 THERE'S OTHER THERE'S OVER 50

1:07:33 DIFFERENT CHEMICAL COMPOUNDS IN

1:07:36 THE KRATOM PLANT THEY EXTRACT

1:07:37 ONE OF THEM CALLED THE SEVEN

1:07:38 HYDROXYL TO TRY TO NINE THE

1:07:40 EXTRACT THAT THOUSANDS OF TIMES

1:07:42 AND THEN THEY PUT IT INTO A

1:07:43 TABLET AND CONCENTRATE IT.

1:07:45 YOU WOULD NEVER YOU COULD

1:07:47 CONSUME GALLONS OF NORMAL

1:07:49 KRATOM POWDER AND YOU NEVER

1:07:50 EVER GET THAT AMOUNT THAT'S IN

1:07:52 THERE.

1:07:53 IT'S IT'S COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS

1:07:55 THAT IT'S EVEN UNDER THE SAME

1:07:57 UMBRELLA AS KRATOM.

1:07:58 THEY'RE JUST THEY COULDN'T BE

1:07:59 ANY MORE DIFFERENT.

1:08:01 IT'S LIKE A BAD APPLE SPOILS

1:08:03 THE BUNCH EXCEPT THE APPLE IS

1:08:04 NOT EVEN AN APPLE.

1:08:05 IT'S AN ORANGE.

1:08:08 AND UM THIS YEAR BAN EVEN

1:08:12 THOUGH IT'S TEMPORARY WAS A

1:08:13 HUGE MISTAKE BECAUSE BOSTON OR

1:08:16 NOT BUT ALL OF MASS IS JUST

1:08:18 GOING TO GET WAY MORE DRUG

1:08:19 ADDICTS OUT ON THE STREET AND

1:08:21 PROBABLY DEATHS AND IT WAS JUST

1:08:24 A HORRIBLE IDEA.

1:08:26 SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR

1:08:27 TESTIMONY.

1:08:28 THANK YOU.

1:08:30 MIKE FRESNO.

1:08:39 IT'S MIKE SO ON THE CALL.

1:08:45 UH IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE IT WILL

1:08:47 GO TO UM NEXT TESTIMONY YOU

1:08:49 KNOW BEFORE.

1:08:52 I MY NAME IS DOCTOR HEIDI

1:08:55 SIKORA I'M A RETIRED NURSE

1:08:56 PRACTITIONER.

1:08:56 DOCTOR NURSING PRACTICE.

1:08:58 HEIDI, I'M SO SORRY.

1:08:59 YOU'RE ACTUALLY THAT'S.

1:09:00 NO PROBLEM.

1:09:01 YOU'RE YOU'RE YOU'RE ON DECK.

1:09:03 WE NOW HAVE SOMEBODY, UM, WHOSE

1:09:06 NAME BEGINS WITH AN ACE, BUT

1:09:07 THEY'RE THEY'RE JUST NOT AS

1:09:08 PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

1:09:10 UH, YES.

1:09:10 THANK YOU.

1:09:11 MY NAME BEGINS WITH THIS.

1:09:14 UH.

1:09:15 GO AHEAD.

1:09:16 HELLO.

1:09:17 UH, GOOD.

1:09:18 AFTERNOON AND THANK YOU FOR

1:09:19 LETTING ME SPEAK.

1:09:20 I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE CONCERNS

1:09:21 ABOUT GAS STATION KRATOM

1:09:23 PRODUCTS.

1:09:24 THESE PRODUCTS ARE HIGHLY

1:09:25 CONCENTRATED AND THESE PRODUCTS

1:09:27 ARE HIGHLY CONCENTRATED AND

1:09:29 CHEMICALLY ALTERED FORM

1:09:30 OF NATURAL BOTANICAL LEAF.

1:09:32 NATURAL KRATOM IS A VERY

1:09:34 DIFFERENT SUBSTANCE.

1:09:34 GAS STATION.

1:09:35 GAS STATION PRODUCTS ARE MUCH

1:09:37 MORE POTENT THE NATURAL CREATE

1:09:39 A LEAF NATURAL CREATE A LEAF

1:09:41 HAS MADE A SERIOUS AND

1:09:42 MEANINGFUL IMPACT ON MY

1:09:44 FRIENDS.

1:09:44 I LIVE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS AND

1:09:46 SERIOUS MEDICAL CONDITIONS.

1:09:47 I'VE SEEN MANY OF MY FRIENDS

1:09:49 WITH MENTAL ILLNESSES SUCH AS

1:09:50 ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, BORDERLINE

1:09:52 AND BIPOLAR DISORDER OVERCOME

1:09:54 HUGE SUBSTANCE DEPENDENCIES TO

1:09:56 ALCOHOL AND OTHER ILLICIT

1:09:57 SUBSTANCES WITH THE HELP OF.

1:09:59 NATURAL KRATOM LEAF.

1:10:01 ON ANOTHER NOTE, MANY OF MY

1:10:02 FRIENDS ARE IN THE DISABLED

1:10:03 COMMUNITY AND USE CREATE THEM

1:10:05 TO MANAGE A VARIETY OF HEALTH

1:10:06 CONDITIONS.

1:10:07 I HAVE FRIENDS THAT USE KRATOM

1:10:08 FOR CHRONIC PAIN, CROHN'S

1:10:10 DISEASE, ARTHRITIS AND S

1:10:12 SYNDROME TO NAME A FEW.

1:10:14 ONE OF MY FRIENDS IS WHEELCHAIR

1:10:15 BOUND AND IS ABLE TO HAVE

1:10:17 ENOUGH ENERGY TO LEAVE THE

1:10:19 HOUSE AND LEAD A SUCCESSFUL

1:10:20 LIFE WITH THE HELP OF NATURAL

1:10:22 BOTANICAL KRATOM LEAF FOR THEM

1:10:25 THIS IS NOT A SMALL CHANGE.

1:10:26 THIS PRODUCT MAKES A HUGE

1:10:28 DIFFERENCE IN THEIR EVERYDAY

1:10:29 QUALITY OF LIFE.

1:10:30 IT HAS MADE PREVIOUSLY

1:10:32 UNMANAGEABLE CONDITIONS

1:10:33 MANAGEABLE AND LIVABLE.

1:10:35 I HOPE THIS SHED SOME LIGHT ON

1:10:37 THE HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

1:10:38 NATURAL KRATOM LEAF AND GAS

1:10:40 STATION SEVEN PRODUCTS.

1:10:42 I HOPE THIS HELPS THOSE

1:10:44 LISTENING UNDERSTAND THE

1:10:46 MEDICAL AND THERAPEUTIC USES

1:10:47 AND MEANINGFUL IMPACT

1:10:49 OF BOTANICAL KRATOM LEAF AND

1:10:51 THE IMPACT IT HAS ON THE

1:10:53 DISABLED COMMUNITY AND THOSE

1:10:54 LIVING WITH MENTAL ILLNESSES.

1:10:56 I SUPPORT THE RESPONSIBLE

1:10:57 REGULATION OF NATURAL KRATOM

1:10:59 LEAF AND I ALSO SUPPORT A FULL

1:11:01 BAN OF THE SEVEN ZERO AGE GAS

1:11:03 STATION PRODUCTS.

1:11:04 THANK YOU FOR LISTENING AND

1:11:05 YOUR CONSIDERATION.

1:11:07 THANK YOU SO MUCH.

1:11:09 UM WE APPRECIATE IT.

1:11:10 SRI MIKE IS ON THE CALL.

1:11:11 WE'LL GO BACK TO MIKE.

1:11:13 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

1:11:15 WE CAN HEAR YOU.

1:11:16 HELLO?

1:11:17 OKAY, GOOD.

1:11:18 YEAH.

1:11:18 SO MY NAME IS MICHAEL FASANO

1:11:20 .

1:11:20 I'VE BEEN A.

1:11:21 KRATOM LEAF.

1:11:22 CONSUMER OF.

1:11:23 THE BOTANICAL TEA FOR.

1:11:24 OVER 15 YEARS ON AND OFF.

1:11:26 UM.

1:11:27 MAINLY FOR JOINT PAINS BUT

1:11:28 MOSTLY.

1:11:29 FOR.

1:11:29 CHRONIC INSOMNIA.

1:11:30 AND.

1:11:31 LOWER DOSES.

1:11:31 I FIND IT HELPS WITH ALERTNESS

1:11:33 FROM A.D.D..

1:11:34 UM.

1:11:35 UH, I JUST WANT TO THANK YOU

1:11:37 GUYS.

1:11:37 FOR, UM, DOING A REGULATORY

1:11:39 APPROACH.

1:11:39 UH, THE DEA, THE FEDERAL

1:11:41 GOVERNMENT THEY'RE ON TOP

1:11:42 OF GETTING RID OF THESE

1:11:43 SYNTHETICS AND, UM, SO FAR THEY

1:11:45 GOT RID OF THE FULLY SYNTHETICS

1:11:46 AND THEY'RE WORKING ON THE

1:11:47 SEVEN AS WE SPEAK.

1:11:49 UM, I WISH OTHER JURISDICTIONS

1:11:51 AND OTHER STATES WOULD FOLLOW A

1:11:54 SIMILAR FRAMEWORK BECAUSE I

1:11:56 ABSOLUTELY DO BELIEVE WE ALL

1:11:57 WORK TOGETHER.

1:11:58 WE CAN REGULATE.

1:11:59 WHEN I.

1:12:00 HEARD THE STATE OF.

1:12:00 MASSACHUSETTS BANNED, UH,

1:12:02 BOTANICAL KRATOM, I WAS REALLY

1:12:03 SADDENED UM, BECAUSE I KNOW

1:12:05 THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT

1:12:06 CONSUMER FOR CHRONIC PAIN AND

1:12:07 VETERANS WITH PTSD.

1:12:09 SO I HOPE THAT THE STATE.

1:12:11 OF MASSACHUSETTS AND THE

1:12:12 COUNTIES CAN COME TO A

1:12:14 RESOLUTION.

1:12:14 WE'RE GOING TO GET RID OF THE

1:12:16 SYNTHETIC.

1:12:16 SKIN.

1:12:17 REGULATE THE NATURAL

1:12:19 BOTANICAL LEAVE.

1:12:19 SO THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO

1:12:20 SPEAK TODAY.

1:12:22 THANK YOU SO MUCH.

1:12:24 UH, WE'LL GO TO HEIDI.

1:12:27 ALL RIGHT.

1:12:28 HELLO AGAIN.

1:12:30 HI AGAIN.

1:12:31 MY NAME IS DOCTOR HEIDI SAKURA

1:12:32 AND I'M A DOCTOR OF NURSING

1:12:34 PRACTICE IN RETIRED NURSE

1:12:35 PRACTITIONER.

1:12:36 UM, AND I DID PRESCRIBE AND

1:12:38 TREAT, UH, MEDICALLY COMPLEX

1:12:41 ONCOLOGY, UH, ADULT AND

1:12:42 GERIATRIC PATIENTS.

1:12:44 I NOW SERVE AS THE VOLUNTEER.

1:12:46 CHIEF SCIENTIFIC.

1:12:48 OFFICER FOR THE INTERNATIONAL

1:12:49 PLANT AND HERBAL ALLIANCE.

1:12:51 I ALSO LIVE WITH MULTIPLE RARE

1:12:53 PAINFUL CONGENITAL CONDITIONS.

1:12:55 UM, AND THEIR PAIN MANAGEMENT

1:12:58 REALLY IS NOT OPTIONAL FOR ME.

1:13:00 IT DETERMINES WHETHER I CAN, UH

1:13:02 ,STAND, MOVE AND FUNCTION.

1:13:04 JUST LIKE SO MANY OF THE OTHERS

1:13:05 THAT YOU HAVE HEARD.

1:13:06 THE PROBLEM IS IS THAT THERE

1:13:08 AREN'T A LOT OF.

1:13:09 UM, GOOD.

1:13:10 OPTIONS FOR PAIN MANAGEMENT,

1:13:13 ESPECIALLY WITH THE STRICT

1:13:14 OPIOID PRESCRIBING GUIDELINES.

1:13:16 AND SO NATURAL KRATOM LEAF

1:13:19 PRODUCTS HAVE REALLY PROVEN TO

1:13:20 BE THE SAFEST AND MOST

1:13:21 EFFECTIVE.

1:13:22 FOR ME.

1:13:23 UM, ALSO I WANT TO ADDRESS A

1:13:25 FEW OF THE UH, QUESTIONS AND

1:13:27 AND CONCERNS THAT I'VE HEARD.

1:13:29 UM, FIRST OF ALL, THE VAST

1:13:32 MAJORITY OF UH CONSUMERS DO USE

1:13:34 A CRATE, UM, FOR RELIEF

1:13:36 OF PAIN.

1:13:37 SO NOT EVERYBODY THAT USES

1:13:39 KRATOM HAS A PROBLEM WITH

1:13:40 ADDICTION.

1:13:41 SO REFERRING THEM TO AN

1:13:43 ADDICTION CENTER REALLY IS NOT

1:13:44 GOING TO SOLVE THEIR ISSUE.

1:13:45 THE OTHER THING THAT I HEARD IS

1:13:47 UM, ABOUT THE TESTING.

1:13:50 SO UH, GOOD QUALITY KRATOM

1:13:53 MANUFACTURERS ACTUALLY PERFORM

1:13:55 THIRD PARTY TESTING.

1:13:55 THEY SEND IT OUT FOR AN

1:13:57 INDEPENDENT THIRD PARTY TEST.

1:13:59 UM, AND THAT RETURNS UH

1:14:01 CERTIFICATE OF ANALYSIS THAT IS

1:14:04 ACTUALLY.

1:14:04 UH.

1:14:05 PREVENTS THE NEED TO FOR THE

1:14:08 CITY TO BE TESTING PRODUCTS.

1:14:10 YOU CAN SIMPLY COLLECT THOSE

1:14:11 CEOS AND AND THEN TAKE A LOOK

1:14:14 AT THOSE AND DETERMINE THAT

1:14:15 IT'S A NATURAL PRODUCT.

1:14:17 UM, AS FAR AS DRIVING THERE IS

1:14:19 A GOOD STUDY HUMAN STUDY ON

1:14:21 DRIVING THAT DID SHOW NO

1:14:23 IMPAIRMENT IN DRIVING.

1:14:24 AND I CAN TELL YOU FROM MY

1:14:26 PERSONAL STANDPOINT I DRIVE

1:14:27 MUCH BETTER UM, USING KRATOM

1:14:29 BECAUSE IT DOES HELP WITH

1:14:31 ATTENTION AND REDUCES THOSE

1:14:32 PAIN SYMPTOMS.

1:14:34 UM ALSO IN IT'S YOU JUST HAVE

1:14:36 15 SECONDS.

1:14:37 THANKS I KNOW OKAY.

1:14:38 I KNOW VERY VERY FAST.

1:14:40 SO ANYWAY, UM WE DO HAVE SOME,

1:14:43 YOU KNOW, COMPLIANCE UH, TOOLS

1:14:45 THAT YOU CAN USE THAT WOULD BE

1:14:47 VERY HELPFUL.

1:14:47 AND SO I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY

1:14:50 KIND OF ASSISTANCE THAT YOU

1:14:52 NEED.

1:14:52 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR

1:14:53 TIME.

1:14:54 THANK YOU.

1:14:54 OKAY.

1:14:55 WE JUST HAVE TWO MORE AND THEN

1:14:55 WE'LL GO TO OUR PANEL.

1:14:56 THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

1:14:57 UM CHAD CORRAL, IF YOU CAN JUST

1:14:59 ACCEPT PANELIST PROMOTION WE

1:15:01 WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.

1:15:03 WHILE YOU'RE DOING THAT WE'LL

1:15:03 GO TO JOSHUA SEE AND THEN CHAD.

1:15:23 THANK YOU TO ETHAN WHO IS OUR

1:15:24 CENTRAL STAFF TECH.

1:15:27 GURU WHO'S HELPING US RIGHT

1:15:28 NOW.

1:15:32 HE LEFT.

1:15:33 CHAD LEFT.

1:15:33 OKAY.

1:15:34 SORRY, CHAD.

1:15:35 UM.

1:15:35 AND THEN JOSHUA IS ALSO NOT

1:15:37 HERE.

1:15:37 OKAY I APOLOGIZE.

1:15:39 WE'LL GO TO OUR PANEL.

1:15:40 I'LL INTRODUCE.

1:15:41 SO I ALREADY.

1:15:42 INTRODUCED YOU.

1:15:43 SO WHY DON'T YOU JUST TAKE IT

1:15:44 AWAY IN YOUR PREFERRED ORDER?

1:15:45 THANK YOU AGAIN FOR PATIENCE.

1:15:46 AND THEN WE'LL GO TO QUESTIONS

1:15:48 FROM MY COLLEAGUES.

1:15:49 GREAT.

1:15:50 THANK YOU.

1:15:50 .

1:15:50 MEMBERS OF THE.

1:15:51 BOSTON CITY COUNCIL FOR THE.

1:15:52 OPPORTUNITY TO TESTIFY IN.

1:15:53 FAVOR OF THE ORDINANCE.

1:15:55 UH, IN DOCKET 1414.

1:15:57 UH, THAT WOULD AMEND CHAPTER 16

1:16:00 OF THE CITY OF BOSTON CODE TO

1:16:02 PROHIBIT.

1:16:02 THE SELL AND USE OF.

1:16:03 SYNTHETIC COMPOUNDS AND UH,

1:16:05 RELATED UH TO SOME UH,

1:16:08 MITIGATING.

1:16:09 MY NAME IS SHELDON.

1:16:11 BRADSHAW AND I REPRESENT

1:16:13 BOTANICALS FOR BETTER HEALTH

1:16:14 AND WELLNESS.

1:16:14 I AM AN FDA.

1:16:16 REGULATORY ATTORNEY.

1:16:17 AND PREVIOUSLY SERVED.

1:16:18 AS.

1:16:19 THE CHIEF COUNCILOR OF THE

1:16:20 UNITED STATES FOOD AND DRUG

1:16:21 ADMINISTRATION WHERE I WAS THE,

1:16:23 UH, OVERSAW AN OFFICE OF UH,

1:16:25 100 PLUS LAWYERS AND WAS

1:16:27 RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING LEGAL

1:16:29 ADVICE TO THE COMMISSIONER

1:16:30 OF THE FDA AND THE OTHER SENIOR

1:16:31 LEADERS OF THE AGENCY.

1:16:33 AND HOPEFULLY I'LL BE ABLE TO

1:16:34 ANSWER SOME OF THE QUESTIONS

1:16:35 THAT A NUMBER OF YOU HAD ABOUT,

1:16:37 UH, WHAT'S HAPPENING AT THE FDA

1:16:39 AND WITH THE FEDERAL

1:16:40 GOVERNMENT'S REGULATION

1:16:41 OF THESE UH, UH, SUBSTANCES.

1:16:44 UH, THE ORGANIZATION UH, THAT I

1:16:46 REPRESENT THE BBH W ADVOCATES

1:16:48 FOR THE EVIDENCE BASED

1:16:49 REGULATION OF PLANT DERIVED

1:16:51 PRODUCTS.

1:16:52 AS A RESULT, WE.

1:16:53 SUPPORT EFFORTS TO BAN

1:16:55 CHEMICALLY MANIPULATED

1:16:56 SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS THAT

1:16:57 MASQUERADE AS BOTANICALS SUCH

1:17:00 AS SEVEN HYDROXY METRIC NINE IN

1:17:02 WHICH FOR.

1:17:03 EASE OF REFERENCE I'LL REFER TO

1:17:05 AS 708.

1:17:06 THROUGHOUT MY TESTIMONY, UH AND

1:17:08 OTHER RELATED COMPOUNDS LIKE

1:17:09 PSEUDO AND DOXIL UH PSEUDO AND

1:17:12 DOXIL MGM UH 15 AND MGM 16.

1:17:16 UH AS I WILL EXPLAIN IN MY

1:17:18 TESTIMONY BANNING THESE

1:17:19 AFOREMENTIONED UH, SYNTHETIC

1:17:21 COMPOUNDS WILL ALIGN THE CITY

1:17:24 OF BOSTON WITH THE RECENT

1:17:25 ACTIONS TAKEN BY THE UNITED

1:17:26 STATES DRUG ENFORCEMENT

1:17:27 ADMINISTRATION, THE UNITED

1:17:29 STATES DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND

1:17:30 HUMAN SERVICES AND THE UNITED

1:17:32 STATES FOOD AND DRUG

1:17:34 ADMINISTRATION.

1:17:35 IN SHORT, FEDERAL HEALTH CARE

1:17:36 OFFICIALS HAVE DESCRIBED THESE

1:17:37 SYNTHETIC DRUGS, UH COMPOUNDS

1:17:40 AS DANGEROUS, ADDICTIVE AND

1:17:42 ILLEGAL.

1:17:43 UH, BUT WE ALSO ADVOCATE FOR

1:17:45 COMMON SENSE REGULATIONS ON THE

1:17:47 NATURAL BOTANICAL KRATOM FOR

1:17:48 EXAMPLE, UH, AGE GATING.

1:17:52 UH TESTING LABELING

1:17:53 REQUIREMENTS, USE OF FOOD GRADE

1:17:55 SOLVENTS FOR UH EXTRACTS AND

1:17:57 THE LIKE AND I KNOW UH

1:17:59 COUNCILMAN UH

1:18:00 COUNCILMAN CULPEPER YOU HAD A

1:18:01 NUMBER OF QUESTIONS RELATED TO

1:18:03 SOME OTHER THINGS WE CAN DO AND

1:18:04 I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY

1:18:06 QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE ABOUT UH

1:18:08 UH, MEASURES THAT CAN BE PUT IN

1:18:09 PLACE, UH, TO ENSURE THAT

1:18:12 PRODUCTS ARE WHAT.

1:18:13 THEY PURPORT TO.

1:18:13 BE WHEN THEY'RE SITTING ON,

1:18:14 UH, SHELVES IN THE CITY

1:18:16 OF BOSTON.

1:18:19 UM UH, SO AGAIN, WE WOULD LIKE

1:18:21 TO COMMEND THE DRAFTERS OF THE

1:18:23 DOCKET, UH, 1414 FOR THEIR

1:18:25 FOCUS ON KEEPING KRATOM OUT

1:18:27 OF THE HANDS OF INDIVIDUALS

1:18:28 UNDER THE AGE OF 21.

1:18:30 UH, AND AGAIN, THIS APPROACH IS

1:18:32 CONSISTENT WITH THE APPROACH

1:18:33 THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS

1:18:35 TAKING WITH RESPECT TO NATURAL

1:18:36 UH, KRATOM.

1:18:38 UH THE PRIMARY MESSAGE THAT I

1:18:39 WANT TO COMMUNICATE TODAY IS

1:18:41 THAT NATURAL BOTANICAL KRATOM

1:18:43 IS NOT THE SAME THING AS

1:18:45 SYNTHETIC AND SIMILAR SYNTHETIC

1:18:47 7 OR 8 UH, WHICH IS NOT IN FACT

1:18:50 A NATURAL BOTANICAL AND IT'S

1:18:51 NOT EVEN KRATOM.

1:18:52 AND I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST

1:18:54 ISSUES WE HAVE IS SORT OF A

1:18:55 NOMENCLATURE UH, ISSUE FOR

1:18:58 EXAMPLE, UH, COUNCILMAN FLYNN,

1:18:59 YOU ASKED QUESTIONS EARLIER

1:19:01 ABOUT UH TO WHAT EXTENT SOMEONE

1:19:03 MIGHT BE IMPAIRED IF THEY TRIED

1:19:05 TO DRIVE AFTER USING KRATOM AND

1:19:06 I THINK IT DEPENDS ENTIRELY ON

1:19:08 WHAT YOU MEAN BY THE WORD

1:19:10 KRATOM.

1:19:10 IF BY KRATOM YOU MEAN THE

1:19:11 NATURAL BOTANICAL THE LEAF UH

1:19:14 AND PRODUCTS MADE FROM THAT

1:19:15 LIKE UH FROM THE LEAF OR FROM

1:19:17 WHAT'S CALLED THE FULL SPECTRUM

1:19:19 UH EXTRACT IN OTHER WORDS AN

1:19:21 EXTRACT THAT HASN'T TRIED TO UH

1:19:23 CONDENSE OR UH, CONSOLIDATE ONE

1:19:26 PARTICULAR PART OF THE CRANIUM

1:19:28 PLANT.

1:19:28 WELL, THE ANSWER THERE I THINK

1:19:30 IS IS PRETTY CLEARLY THAT IT

1:19:32 DOES.

1:19:32 AND JOHNS HOPKINS, UH, ACTUALLY

1:19:34 DID A STUDY ON THE QUESTION

1:19:36 OF UH, DRIVING SPECIFICALLY

1:19:38 RELATED TO DRIVING WITH RESPECT

1:19:40 TO NATIONAL KRATOM.

1:19:41 UH, AND IT DID NOT IMPACT

1:19:42 DRIVING.

1:19:43 NOW IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

1:19:45 THESE SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS THAT

1:19:47 MASQUERADE AS KRATOM AND I USE

1:19:48 THE WORD MASQUERADE BECAUSE

1:19:50 THEY'RE NOT IN FACT KRATOM AT

1:19:51 ALL.

1:19:51 UH, THEY AND I'M GOING TO TALK

1:19:53 A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THIS IN MY

1:19:55 TESTIMONY.

1:19:56 UH, BUT UH, IN ORDER TO CONFUSE

1:19:59 THE PUBLIC AND REGULATORS, THEY

1:20:01 LIKE TO CALL THEMSELVES KRATOM

1:20:03 THESE SINCE THE YOU KNOW, UH,

1:20:06 BAD ACTORS WHO ARE MARKETING

1:20:08 THESE SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS LIKE

1:20:10 TO USE WORDS LIKE NATURAL AND

1:20:11 KRATOM ON THEIR PACKAGING.

1:20:13 THEY LIKE TO HAVE VIGNETTES

1:20:14 OF PLANT MATERIAL ON THEIR

1:20:16 PACKAGING.

1:20:16 BUT BUT THESE THESE MATERIALS

1:20:18 ARE NOT IN FACT KRATOM UH,

1:20:20 THOSE BEING VERY WELL, UH,

1:20:22 IMPAIRED DRIVING BECAUSE THEY

1:20:24 OPERATE AND ACT UH, LIKE

1:20:26 CLASSIC OPIOIDS AND WE'LL

1:20:28 DISCUSS THAT I'LL DISCUSS THAT

1:20:30 A LITTLE MORE AS WELL IN MY

1:20:31 TESTIMONY.

1:20:33 UM, I WILL NOTE THOUGH THAT

1:20:34 WHEN THE DEA UH, AT THE REQUEST

1:20:37 OF BOTH HHS, HHS AND THE FDA UH

1:20:41 ,RECENTLY ISSUED A NOTICE

1:20:42 OF INTENT TO PLACE SYNTHETIC

1:20:43 COMPOUNDS THAT MASQUERADE AS

1:20:45 CREATED ON SCHEDULE ONE OF THE

1:20:46 CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES ACT.

1:20:48 BOTH THE DEA UH AND A JOINT

1:20:52 PRESS RELEASE BY UM, THE FDA

1:20:55 AND HHS MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT

1:20:58 THEIR CONCERNS WERE ABOUT

1:21:00 SYNTHETIC COMPOUNDS AND DID NOT

1:21:02 EXTEND TO THE NATURAL BOTANICAL

1:21:04 KRATOM.

1:21:05 THE DEA PRESS RELEASE INCLUDED

1:21:06 THE FOLLOWING STATEMENT THIS

1:21:09 EMERGENCY SCHEDULING ACTION

1:21:10 DOES NOT APPLY TO BOTANICAL

1:21:12 KRATOM PRODUCTS THAT CONTAIN

1:21:14 NATURALLY OCCURRING SEVEN OR

1:21:16 BELOW THE SPECIFIED THRESHOLD.

1:21:17 I'M GOING TO TALK A LITTLE MORE

1:21:19 ABOUT THAT IN A FEW SECONDS AS

1:21:20 WELL.

1:21:21 UH, THE JOINT HHS AND FDA PRESS

1:21:23 RELEASE INCLUDED THE FOLLOWING

1:21:25 STATEMENT THESE ACTIONS ARE NOT

1:21:27 INTENDED TO REGULATE NATURALLY

1:21:29 KRATOM THAT DOES NOT CONTAIN

1:21:31 ENHANCED LEVELS OF SEVEN AND

1:21:32 EIGHT ALTHOUGH SEVEN WHICH

1:21:34 OCCURS NATURALLY IN TRACE

1:21:35 AMOUNTS IN THE CREATE AND PLANT

1:21:37 SCHEDULING SEVEN WHICH ABOVE A

1:21:38 CERTAIN THRESHOLD LEVEL DOES

1:21:40 NOT INTEND TO CAPTURE THE

1:21:42 CREATED BOTANICAL LEAF IN THE

1:21:43 IN THE PRESENT UH EMERGENCY

1:21:46 SCHEDULING RECOMMENDATION AND

1:21:48 THESE STATEMENTS ARE ALL FULLY

1:21:50 CONSISTENT WITH THE POSITION TO

1:21:51 TAKE THE FDA HAS TAKEN FOR

1:21:53 EXAMPLE IN JULY OF LAST YEAR IT

1:21:55 TOOK STEPS TO INITIATE UH THE

1:21:59 SCHEDULING OF SEVEN WHICH IT

1:22:00 WENT TO GREAT PAINS TO

1:22:02 EXPLICITLY STATE THAT ITS

1:22:03 ACTIONS WERE QUOTE NOT FOCUSED

1:22:05 ON NATURAL CREDIT AND LEAF

1:22:07 PRODUCTS.

1:22:08 SIMILARLY, WHEN FORMER FDA

1:22:10 COMMISSIONER MARTY MCCRORY

1:22:11 WARNED CONSUMERS ABOUT PRODUCTS

1:22:13 CONTAINING SEVEN AND EIGHT

1:22:14 AGAIN HE SPECIFICALLY STATED

1:22:16 THAT THEY BEAR NO RESEMBLANCE

1:22:19 TO THE BOTANICAL KRATOM THAT

1:22:20 PEOPLE HAVE CONSUMED FOR

1:22:21 CENTURIES.

1:22:22 A DECADE AGO, THE FDA AND THE

1:22:25 DEA DID CONSIDER WHETHER THE

1:22:27 BOTANICAL KRATOM SHOULD BE

1:22:28 SCHEDULED UNDER THE CONTROLLED

1:22:30 SUBSTANCES ACT BASED ON THE

1:22:32 EIGHT FACTOR ANALYSIS SET FORTH

1:22:35 IN THE CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE

1:22:36 ACT.

1:22:37 THE ANSWER WAS CLEAR.

1:22:38 THEY CONCLUDED THE CLAIM SHOULD

1:22:40 NOT BE BANNED.

1:22:41 IN SHORT, KRATOM HAS BENEFICIAL

1:22:43 EFFECTS WITH RELATIVELY LOW

1:22:44 RISK OF HARM AND THEREFORE DOES

1:22:46 NOT MEET THE CRITERIA TO BE

1:22:48 SCHEDULE A BAND.

1:22:50 IN SHARP CONTRAST, APPLYING

1:22:51 THOSE SAME EIGHT FACTORS TO THE

1:22:53 SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS RESULTED IN

1:22:55 THE DEA AND THE FEDERAL

1:22:57 GOVERNMENT DETERMINING THAT

1:22:58 THEY ABSOLUTELY SHOULD BE

1:22:59 SCHEDULED AND BANNED.

1:23:01 UM MORE RECENT STUDIES SUPPORT

1:23:02 THIS DECISION.

1:23:03 FOR EXAMPLE, IN THIS FIRST

1:23:06 STUDY I'M GOING TO DESCRIBE

1:23:07 WHICH WAS FUNDED BY THE

1:23:09 NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH

1:23:10 AND CONDUCTED BY THE UNIVERSITY

1:23:12 OF FLORIDA ALSO TURNS ON THIS

1:23:14 IMPORTANT DISTINGUISH BETWEEN

1:23:16 WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT WHEN

1:23:17 WE TALK ABOUT KRATOM?

1:23:19 UH, A RECENT THIS NIH STUDY

1:23:21 FOUND THAT UNLIKE 7OH WHICH

1:23:24 CAUSES OR INDUCES RESPIRATORY

1:23:26 DEPRESSION.

1:23:27 IN OTHER WORDS, IT DOES THE

1:23:28 SAME THING THAT CLASSIC OPIOIDS

1:23:30 DO.

1:23:31 IT BINDS THE OPIOID RECEPTORS

1:23:33 UH TELLS THE BRAIN TO TURN OFF

1:23:35 THE FUNCTION OF BREATHING AND

1:23:38 INDUCES RESPIRATORY DEPRESSION.

1:23:40 SO IN SHARP CONTRAST TO THAT,

1:23:42 UH, WHAT THE NIH STUDY FOUND IS

1:23:45 THAT THE ALKALOID METRIC 19

1:23:47 WHICH IS THE PRIMARY ALKALOID

1:23:49 IN KRATOM ACTUALLY INCREASED

1:23:52 RESPIRATORY FREQUENCY.

1:23:54 IT IT HAD THE OPPOSITE EFFECT.

1:23:55 SO SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT

1:23:57 CREATING AND AGAIN IT'S TO BE

1:23:58 IMPORTANT TO BE CLEAR.

1:23:59 THE NATURAL BOTANICAL ACTUALLY

1:24:03 INCREASED RESPIRATORY FREQUENCY

1:24:04 .

1:24:05 THESE SYNTHETIC DRUGS THAT

1:24:07 MASQUERADE AS KRATOM OPERATE

1:24:09 LIKE CLASSIC OPIOIDS AND

1:24:11 ACTUALLY CAUSE RESPIRATORY

1:24:12 INDUCED RESPIRATORY UH

1:24:14 DEPRESSION.

1:24:16 AN ADDITIONAL RECENT STUDY THIS

1:24:17 ONE BY THE FDA WAS COMPLETED IN

1:24:20 2024 SHOWED THAT THE NATURAL

1:24:22 BOTANICAL KRATOM WAS WELL

1:24:23 TOLERATED IN STUDY SUBJECTS

1:24:25 EVEN AT HIGH DOSES.

1:24:27 THE ASCENDING DOSE STUDY WAS AN

1:24:29 ADULT POPULATION AND USED UP TO

1:24:32 140MG OF METRIC, WHICH IS SEVEN

1:24:34 TIMES THE AMOUNT OF METRIC

1:24:35 LINING IN A TYPICAL SERVING

1:24:37 OF A COMMERCIAL KRATOM PRODUCT.

1:24:39 AND I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE.

1:24:41 MORE ABOUT.

1:24:41 THAT AS WELL BECAUSE I, I SHARE

1:24:43 CONCERNS THAT I THINK UH,

1:24:45 AGAIN, COUNCILMAN CULPEPPER YOU

1:24:46 HAD ABOUT UH, SETTING LIMITS ON

1:24:49 SERVING SIZES AND LIMITS ON HOW

1:24:52 MANY SERVINGS CAN BE PACKAGED

1:24:54 TOGETHER IN A IN A CONTAINER.

1:24:56 UM BUT AS WAS NOTED IN

1:24:58 TESTIMONY, KRATOM IS A

1:24:59 BOTANICAL IN THE COFFEE FAMILY

1:25:00 THAT HAS BEEN SAFELY USED FOR

1:25:02 CENTURIES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA.

1:25:04 IT CONTAINS AT LEAST 50 UNIQUE

1:25:06 ALKALOIDS, THE MOST PREDOMINANT

1:25:07 OF WHICH UH IS METRIC MINING.

1:25:10 AND AS I NOTED AT THE OUTSET

1:25:11 OF MY TESTIMONY, IT IS CRITICAL

1:25:13 TO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT THAT

1:25:15 NATURAL BOTANICAL HAS BEEN USED

1:25:16 SAFELY FOR CENTURIES IS NOT THE

1:25:19 SAME THING AS THESE SYNTHETIC

1:25:20 AND SEMI-SYNTHETIC COMPOUNDS,

1:25:22 UH, THAT PURPORT TO BE

1:25:24 CREATED BUT OR NOT.

1:25:25 UH AND FIRST LET ME SAY THE

1:25:27 MISCONCEPTION THAT 7 OR 8 AND

1:25:29 CREATE THEM ARE THE SAME WAS

1:25:31 SOMETHING THAT WAS

1:25:31 INTENTIONALLY PERPETUATED BY

1:25:33 THE SEVEN OH AGE INDUSTRY.

1:25:35 THEY OFTEN, AS I NOTED, USE

1:25:37 VIGNETTES OF KRATOM LEAVES ON

1:25:38 THEIR PACKAGING PACKAGING ALONG

1:25:40 WITH FALSE CLAIMS THAT THEIR

1:25:43 PRODUCTS ARE NATURAL AND THEY

1:25:45 ENGAGED IN THIS CANARD FOR

1:25:46 THREE REASONS FIRST, TO MISLEAD

1:25:49 CONSUMERS WHO THOUGHT THEY WERE

1:25:50 USING A NATURAL BOTANICAL WITH

1:25:51 A LONG HISTORY OF SAFE USE TWO

1:25:54 TO FALSELY SUGGEST THAT THEY

1:25:55 HAVE THE SAME SAFETY PROFILE AS

1:25:57 NATURAL BOTANICAL.

1:25:58 THEY DON'T INTEND TO SHIFT

1:26:00 BLAME FOR ADVERSE EVENTS FROM 7

1:26:02 OR 8 TO KRATOM.

1:26:04 AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE

1:26:06 DESCRIBE 7 OR 8 IS KRATOM IT IN

1:26:09 AND THEN WE'RE CONFUSED ABOUT

1:26:12 UH THE SOURCE OF UH PARTICULAR

1:26:14 ADVERSE EVENTS.

1:26:16 THE SECOND THING I WOULD SAY IS

1:26:17 THAT WHEN KRATOM LEAVES ARE

1:26:19 FIRST HARVESTED THEY ACTUALLY

1:26:20 DO NOT CONTAIN 708 UH,

1:26:24 POST-HARVEST TRACE AMOUNTS

1:26:24 OF MITCHELL GAINING CONVERT TO

1:26:27 7 OR 8 DUE TO OXIDATION AND

1:26:29 THIS IS WHERE SOME OF THE BAD

1:26:30 ACTORS HAD UH I GUESS AN

1:26:32 EPIPHANY.

1:26:33 THIS WAS THEIR LIGHT BULB

1:26:34 MOMENT WHEN THEY LEARNED THAT

1:26:35 TRACE AMOUNTS OF MITCHELL

1:26:36 GREENING CONVERTED TO SEVEN UH

1:26:40 HYDROXY MITCHELL GAINING DUE TO

1:26:42 OXIDATION AND POST-HARVEST

1:26:43 LEAVES.

1:26:44 THEY REALIZED THAT THEY COULD

1:26:46 DO THE SAME THING IN A LAB THAT

1:26:48 THEY COULD TAKE MITCHELL

1:26:49 GREENING, THEY COULD EXPOSE IT

1:26:52 TO OXIDIZING AGENTS.

1:26:53 THINK OF THINGS LIKE POOL SHOCK

1:26:56 ,DRANO, BLEACH THINGS THAT ARE

1:26:58 USED UH, FOR FOR OXIDIZING AND

1:27:02 AND SO THEY'VE TAKEN AN

1:27:04 ISOLATED.

1:27:05 ONE ONE ALKALOID OUT OF THE

1:27:08 KRATOM LEAF.

1:27:09 THEY'VE SUBJECTED TO HARSH

1:27:11 TOXIC CHEMICALS AND THEY'VE

1:27:12 CREATED A BRAND NEW UH,

1:27:14 CHEMICAL ENTITY SEVEN HYDROXY

1:27:16 NATURE GUIDE.

1:27:17 THEY THEN TAKE THAT CONDENSE IT

1:27:21 UH, INTO UH PRODUCTS THAT

1:27:24 CONTAIN UP TO LIKE 95% UH SEVEN

1:27:27 HYDROXY TRAINING WHEREAS A

1:27:30 POST-HARVEST LEAF MIGHT HAVE

1:27:32 LIKE .00, YOU KNOW FOUR SO IT'S

1:27:36 VERY DRAMATICALLY DIFFERENT

1:27:37 AMOUNTS.

1:27:38 AND THE SIMPLE ANALOGY NICELY

1:27:40 ILLUSTRATES WHY SEVEN WHICH IS

1:27:42 NOT CREATIVE.

1:27:42 IMAGINE WE DID THAT THE SAME

1:27:44 THING TO THE COFFEE BEAN.

1:27:47 WE TOOK THE MOST PREDOMINANT

1:27:48 ALKALOID IN THE COFFEE BEAN

1:27:50 WHICH HAPPENS TO BE CAFFEINE.

1:27:53 UH AND IF WE TOOK AND EXTRACTED

1:27:54 JUST THE CAFFEINE AND WE THEN

1:27:57 EXPOSED IT TO HARSH CHEMICALS

1:27:58 AND CREATED A BRAND NEW

1:28:01 CHEMICAL ENTITY, WE WOULDN'T

1:28:03 CALL THAT NEW CHEMICAL ENTITY

1:28:04 COFFEE.

1:28:06 IT CEASED TO BE COFFEE.

1:28:08 YOU KNOW.

1:28:09 IT STARTED WITH ONE OF THE

1:28:11 ALKALOIDS IN COFFEE BUT THROUGH

1:28:13 CHEMISTRY TURNED IT INTO

1:28:14 SOMETHING NEW ALTOGETHER.

1:28:17 SO THEY CREATED WAS USED BY 20

1:28:18 MILLION AMERICANS TO INCREASE

1:28:19 FOCUS AND ENERGY UH, TO PROVIDE

1:28:22 A MILD BOOST IN MOOD AND RELIEF

1:28:23 FROM MINOR ACHES AND PAINS

1:28:24 ASSOCIATED WITH PHYSICAL

1:28:25 ACTIVITY.

1:28:26 AND THE NATURAL BOTANICAL HAS

1:28:28 BENEFICIAL EFFECTS WITH

1:28:29 RELATIVELY LOW POTENTIAL FOR

1:28:31 HARM.

1:28:31 AND WE UH, URGED MEMBERS OF THE

1:28:33 CITY COUNCIL TO CONTINUE WITH

1:28:35 THE PROPOSAL TO REGULATE THE

1:28:37 BUT AGAIN BOTANICAL INSTEAD

1:28:39 OF BANNING IT.

1:28:40 UH, FINALLY, I DO APPRECIATE

1:28:42 THAT THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER

1:28:43 THINGS GOING ON UM, UH, BOTH

1:28:46 NATIONALLY AND IN MASSACHUSETTS

1:28:48 RIGHT NOW.

1:28:49 UM, I NOTED EARLIER THAT THE

1:28:51 UH, DA'S IN THE PROCESS

1:28:54 OF SCHEDULING A NUMBER

1:28:56 OF PRODUCTS.

1:28:56 THEY'VE ALREADY PLACED A NUMBER

1:28:58 OF THEM ON SCHEDULE ONE SO

1:28:59 THEY'RE ALREADY BANNED.

1:29:01 UH, THEY EXTENDED THE COMMENT

1:29:02 PERIOD ON SEVEN HYDROXY METRIC

1:29:04 I NEED TO SEPTEMBER 10TH THAT'S

1:29:05 NOW PASSED.

1:29:06 WE ANTICIPATE THAT THE DEA WILL

1:29:08 ISSUE, UH, ITS EMERGENCY RULE

1:29:11 SCHEDULING UH, SEVEN HYDROXY

1:29:14 BEGINNING IN THE NEXT COUPLE

1:29:15 OF WEEKS.

1:29:16 UM, UH, SECOND, WE UNDERSTAND I

1:29:19 UNDERSTAND THAT THE GOVERNOR

1:29:20 ISSUED AN EMERGENCY.

1:29:21 ORDER RESTRICTING THE SALE

1:29:23 OF BOTH THE NATURAL BOTANICAL

1:29:25 AND SYNTHETICS.

1:29:27 UM, I LIKE THE IDEA THAT, UH,

1:29:29 COUNCILMAN FITZGERALD OF ADDING

1:29:30 AN EFFECTIVE DATE TO YOUR YOUR

1:29:32 BILL.

1:29:33 UH, I WOULD NOT SET UP FOR A

1:29:35 YEAR FROM THE DATE OF OF THE,

1:29:37 UH WHERE THE, UH, GOVERNOR'S

1:29:39 ORDER SUNSETS BECAUSE THERE'S

1:29:41 LOTS OF THINGS THAT COULD

1:29:42 HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND THEN

1:29:44 INCLUDING, UH, YOU KNOW, THE

1:29:47 GOVERNOR WITHDRAWING IT, UH,

1:29:49 BASED ON WHAT THE DEA IS ABOUT

1:29:51 READY TO DO IN TWO WEEKS.

1:29:52 UH, TYPICALLY STATES LIKE THAT,

1:29:54 UH, PATTERN AND TRACK WHAT THE

1:29:57 DEA DOES AND THE DEA IS CLEARLY

1:29:59 ONLY BANNING UH, SEVEN HYDROXY

1:30:02 UH IN PSEUDO AND DOC'S ALL MGM

1:30:04 UH 15 MGM 16 UM THERE'S

1:30:08 LITIGATION RIGHT NOW THAT COULD

1:30:10 RESOLVE UH UH UH OR HAVE IMPACT

1:30:13 THE GOVERNOR'S BAN UM THE

1:30:17 MASSACHUSETTS LEGISLATURE COULD

1:30:18 STEP IN AND DO SOMETHING.

1:30:19 SO UH I GUESS I WOULD STRONGLY

1:30:22 RECOMMEND AN EFFECTIVE DATE

1:30:24 OF WHEN THAT BAN CEASES BEING

1:30:26 EFFECTIVE FOR A VARIETY

1:30:27 OF THOSE DIFFERENT REASONS

1:30:29 EITHER BECAUSE THE DEA IS NOW

1:30:32 ACTING, UH, THE THE THE BANNED

1:30:34 THE SYNTHETIC SUBSTANCES AND UH

1:30:37 OR BECAUSE OF THE OUTCOME

1:30:39 OF LITIGATION OR LEGISLATION.

1:30:41 SO WITH THAT I UH HAPPY TO

1:30:43 ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT UH UH

1:30:46 THAT YOU MAY HAVE UH AFTER THE

1:30:47 UH I GUESS AFTER THE OTHER

1:30:49 MEMBERS OF THE PANEL SPEAK.

1:30:50 THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU

1:30:52 FOR THAT.

1:30:52 UM, VERY THOROUGH AND

1:30:53 THOUGHTFUL TESTIMONY.

1:30:55 YOUR CM CORRECT CORRECT.

1:30:57 OKAY.

1:30:58 YOU'RE UP AND THEN MATTHEW LOWE

1:30:59 WHO IS ON VIRTUALLY.

1:31:01 UH, MADAM CHAIRMAN.

1:31:03 MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE

1:31:03 THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY

1:31:04 TO SPEAK FOR THE 24 MILLION

1:31:07 PLUS AMERICANS WHO SAFELY

1:31:09 CONSUME KRATOM PRODUCTS.

1:31:10 UH, IT IS CRITICAL THAT THE

1:31:13 DISTINCTION THAT, UH,

1:31:15 MR BRADSHAW MENTIONED IS

1:31:17 RECOGNIZED IN A REGULATORY WAY

1:31:19 THAT, UH, 70H IS NOT KRATOM.

1:31:22 UH, I PRODUCED A DOCUMENT FOR

1:31:24 YOU UNDER TAB ONE OF THAT

1:31:25 DOCUMENT.

1:31:26 I HAVE THE PRESS RELEASE FROM

1:31:28 JULY 29TH OF 2025 WHERE THE

1:31:32 SECRETARY OF HHS, THE FDA

1:31:34 COMMISSIONER, THEN COMMISSIONER

1:31:36 MCCARRY AND THE DEA ASSOCIATE

1:31:38 COMMISSIONER SPOKE AND SAID

1:31:40 THAT THERE IS A DISTINCTION

1:31:42 BETWEEN THIS CHEMICALLY

1:31:44 MANIPULATED SEVEN ZERO PRODUCT

1:31:46 AND THE THEN SYNTHETICALLY

1:31:49 DERIVED UH MGM 15 AND 16 AND

1:31:51 SUIT AND OXO PRODUCTS.

1:31:53 AND THAT DISTINCTION IS

1:31:54 CRITICALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE

1:31:56 SAFETY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

1:31:58 UH, THIS PRESS RELEASE DREW

1:32:00 THAT DISTINCTION AND

1:32:01 MR BRADSHAW GAVE YOU FURTHER

1:32:03 TEXTURE TO IT.

1:32:04 IT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE WHEN

1:32:06 THE BIG MARKETS SPLASH OF THESE

1:32:08 BAD ACTORS, SEVEN MANUFACTURERS

1:32:11 PUT THEIR PRODUCTS ON THE

1:32:12 MARKET, THEY DID SO CALLING IT

1:32:15 KRATOM AND CONSUMERS WOULD GO

1:32:17 INTO RETAIL OUTLETS THINKING

1:32:20 THAT THEY WERE PURCHASING A

1:32:21 NATURAL KRATOM LEAF PRODUCT.

1:32:23 THEY WERE DECEIVED INTO

1:32:25 THINKING IT WAS THAT WAS IT AND

1:32:26 THEY WENT HOME WITH A

1:32:28 CHEMICALLY MANIPULATED OPIOID.

1:32:30 AND THE RESULT OF THAT ARE ALL

1:32:32 THE TRAGIC CONSEQUENCES THAT

1:32:35 COME FROM THE CONSUMPTION OF A

1:32:37 SIGNATURE OPIOID WITH ALL

1:32:39 OF THE RISKS THAT ARE

1:32:40 ASSOCIATED WITH IT, INCLUDING

1:32:42 ADDICTION AND DEATH.

1:32:43 THE SECOND UH, TAB I PROVIDED

1:32:46 FOR YOU THE CDC REPORT FROM

1:32:49 2019 AND THIS PARTICULAR REPORT

1:32:51 IS SIGNIFICANT ON A NUMBER

1:32:53 OF LEVELS BUT ONE, IT CLARIFIES

1:32:55 THAT KRATOM IS NOT AN OPIOID.

1:32:57 YOU WILL HEAR PEOPLE SAY WHO

1:32:59 ARE ANTI-TRADE AND CRITICS THAT

1:33:01 KRATOM ITSELF IS AN OPIOID AND

1:33:03 THE JUSTIFICATION THEY PROVIDE

1:33:05 FOR THAT IS THAT KRATOM

1:33:07 ACTIVATES THE MU OPIOID

1:33:09 RECEPTORS IN OUR BODIES.

1:33:10 THAT IS A TRUE STATEMENT.

1:33:12 BUT THAT IS NOT THE DEFINITION

1:33:14 OF AN OPIOID BECAUSE METRO

1:33:15 ARGININE AMONG THE 54 ALKALOIDS

1:33:18 IN THE KRATOM PLANT ACTUALLY IS

1:33:21 A PARTIAL AGONIST AND ITS

1:33:23 ACTIVITY AT THE MU OPIOID

1:33:25 RECEPTORS IS NOTHING LIKE A

1:33:28 SIGNATURE OPIOID.

1:33:29 UH, IT DOES NOT GO TO THE

1:33:30 EUPHORIC HIGH CENTER OF YOUR

1:33:31 BRAIN.

1:33:32 IT DOES NOT CAUSE RESPIRATORY

1:33:34 SUPPRESSION.

1:33:35 AND THAT DISTINCTION IS

1:33:36 IMPORTANT.

1:33:37 IT'S CLARIFIED BY THE CENTERS

1:33:38 FOR DISEASE CONTROL WHERE IT

1:33:39 SAYS THAT KRATOM IS NOT AN

1:33:41 OPIOID.

1:33:42 IN THE THIRD TAB I PROVIDED YOU

1:33:45 WITH THE DOSE FINDING STUDY

1:33:47 CONDUCTED BY THE FOOD AND DRUG

1:33:49 ADMINISTRATION THAT MR BRADSHAW

1:33:50 REFERENCED WHERE AT A

1:33:52 SIGNIFICANT LEVEL OF METRO

1:33:54 ARGININE AND THEY WERE TRYING

1:33:55 BY THE WAY STARTING WITH A

1:33:58 SINGLE DOSE SINGLE SINGLE GRAM

1:34:00 THEY ESCALATED THE GRAMS THAT

1:34:03 WERE GIVEN TO THE PARTICIPANTS

1:34:05 IN THIS STUDY.

1:34:06 THE PARTICIPANTS WERE WIRED UP

1:34:08 AND THEY WERE MEASURED WITHIN

1:34:10 FIVE MINUTES OF THE CONSUMPTION

1:34:11 OF THE PRODUCT.

1:34:13 THEY WERE LOOKING FOR ADVERSE

1:34:15 EVENTS.

1:34:15 THEY WERE LOOKING TO SEE AT

1:34:16 WHAT POINT KRATOM INDUCED AN

1:34:18 ADVERSE EVENT AND THEY GOT TO

1:34:20 THAT SIGNIFICANTLY HIGH LEVEL

1:34:22 AND ALL THEY SAW WAS THAT

1:34:25 KRATOM PRODUCED SOME NAUSEA

1:34:27 WHICH THE UH THE PLACEBO

1:34:31 COHORT UH, EQUALLY EXPERIENCED

1:34:34 BECAUSE CONSUMING THAT MUCH

1:34:35 PLANT MATERIAL IN THAT SHORT

1:34:37 PERIOD OF TIME IS SIMPLY GOING

1:34:39 TO MAKE YOU SICK.

1:34:40 THEY DID OBSERVE THAT THERE IS

1:34:41 SOME PAPILLARY CONSTRICTION

1:34:44 CONSISTENT WITH OPIOID LIKE

1:34:45 BEHAVIORS, BUT IT WAS SO SMALL

1:34:46 AND INSIGNIFICANT THAT THE FDA

1:34:49 CALLED OFF THE STUDY AND AS

1:34:51 MR BRADSHAW MENTIONED TO YOU,

1:34:52 THEY SAID THAT THE KRATOM IS

1:34:54 WELL TOLERATED AT ALL DOSE

1:34:55 LEVELS.

1:34:56 THIS IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT

1:34:58 CHANGED THE FDA'S TRAJECTORY ON

1:35:00 THEIR VIEW OF NATURAL KRATOM

1:35:02 LEAF PRODUCTS.

1:35:03 WHEN THAT REPORT WAS CONCLUDED

1:35:05 ,I ALSO INCLUDED UNDER THAT

1:35:07 TAB THE NIH INVESTIGATIONAL NEW

1:35:09 DRUG APPLICATION THAT WAS

1:35:11 ANNOUNCED ON JUNE 1ST OF 2026.

1:35:14 THIS IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE

1:35:16 THERE HAVE BEEN ANECDOTAL

1:35:17 REPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN PROVIDED

1:35:19 ,INCLUDING SOME CONSUMER

1:35:21 SURVEYS CONDUCTED BY THE

1:35:22 NATIONAL INSTITUTE ON DRUG

1:35:24 ABUSE FUNDED BY THEM THAT WERE

1:35:25 DONE BY JOHNS HOPKINS

1:35:27 UNIVERSITY WHERE THEY MEASURED

1:35:30 3000 UH, OPIOID ADDICTS AND

1:35:32 PEOPLE THESE ADDICTS WERE USING

1:35:34 KRATOM TO GET OFF OF THE

1:35:36 OPIOID, AND 87% REPORTED THAT

1:35:38 THEY HAD A REDUCTION IN THEIR

1:35:40 WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS.

1:35:41 THAT'S WHY THE NATIONAL

1:35:43 INSTITUTES OF HEALTH ANNOUNCED

1:35:46 A INVESTIGATIONAL NEW DRUG

1:35:47 APPLICATION FOR PURIFIED METRO

1:35:49 GENE HIGH CONCENTRATED DOSE TO

1:35:51 SEE IF IT CAN HELP WITH OPIOID

1:35:53 USE DISORDER.

1:35:54 IT IS A SIGNIFICANT ADVANCE IN

1:35:56 THE SCIENCE AND CERTAINLY ONE

1:35:58 THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING

1:35:59 FOR CLOSELY IN THE FOURTH TAB I

1:36:02 PROVIDE TO YOU HERE SOME A VERY

1:36:04 SIGNIFICANT STUDY THAT IS A

1:36:06 PEER REVIEWED PUBLISHED ARTICLE

1:36:07 THAT HAPPENED IN 2016.

1:36:10 IN THAT STUDY, THE RESEARCHERS

1:36:12 FOUND THAT THERE WERE PRODUCT

1:36:14 COMMERCIAL PRODUCTS LABELED AS

1:36:16 KRATOM ON THE MARKET IN 2016

1:36:19 WHICH SHOWED THAT IN SOME

1:36:22 OF THOSE PRODUCTS THERE WAS AN

1:36:23 INCREASE OF 500% OF SEVEN OR

1:36:26 ABOVE WHAT THE NATURALLY

1:36:27 OCCURRING LEVEL WAS DOING.

1:36:29 THESE BAD ACTORS HAD BEEN

1:36:31 ACTIVE IN THE KRATOM SPACE FOR

1:36:33 A LONG TIME AND EVERYONE WILL

1:36:35 TELL YOU ALL WAS 2023.

1:36:38 THAT'S WHEN THE HIGHLY

1:36:39 COMMERCIALIZED BIG MARKET

1:36:41 SPLASH OCCURRED.

1:36:42 BUT THESE PRODUCTS HAVE BEEN

1:36:43 OUT THERE AND WE AT THE ICA

1:36:47 RECOGNIZED IT.

1:36:48 WE HAVE SINCE 2018 BEEN

1:36:51 ADVOCATING FOR STATE

1:36:52 LEGISLATORS TO BAN ANY

1:36:54 CONCENTRATED LEVELS OF SEVEN

1:36:57 BECAUSE WE KNEW THAT THESE

1:36:58 ADULTERATED PRODUCTS WERE ON

1:36:59 THE MARKETPLACE.

1:37:01 22 STATES HAVE ENACTED VARIOUS

1:37:03 FORMS OF OUR KRATOM CONSUMER

1:37:04 PROTECTION ACT AND WE HOPE THAT

1:37:06 MASSACHUSETTS WILL JOIN THEM.

1:37:08 INTERESTINGLY, RHODE ISLAND

1:37:10 ADOPTED THAT REPEALED THEIR BAN

1:37:11 ,WHICH HAD BEEN INSTITUTED IN

1:37:13 2015 AT THE REQUEST OF THE FDA

1:37:16 WHO AT THE TIME BELIEVED THAT

1:37:17 KRATOM WAS IN FACT A DANGEROUS

1:37:20 DRUG AND THEY'VE SINCE

1:37:21 OF COURSE CHANGED THAT POLICY.

1:37:23 BUT RHODE ISLAND REPEALED THEIR

1:37:25 LAW LAST YEAR AND THEY NOW HAVE

1:37:27 A KRATOM CONSUMER PROTECTION

1:37:29 ACT.

1:37:29 THERE ALSO IS A DOCUMENT THAT

1:37:31 SHOWS YOU THE POISON CONTROL

1:37:33 CENTER DATA.

1:37:34 YOU WILL HEAR CRITICS OF KRATOM

1:37:36 SAY OH, THERE'S A HUGE SPIKE IN

1:37:38 REPORTS ABOUT KRATOM TO THE

1:37:41 POISON CONTROL CENTERS.

1:37:42 THAT IS A TRUE FACT.

1:37:43 THE PROBLEM IS WHEN PEOPLE CALL

1:37:46 THE POISON CONTROL CENTER THEY

1:37:48 THINK THEY'RE REPORTING KRATOM

1:37:49 AND YOU SEE THE SPIKE IN CALLS

1:37:51 THAT CAME IN 2025 THAT MORE

1:37:54 THAN DOUBLED THE ONES OF THE

1:37:56 PREVIOUS YEARS WHICH UP UNTIL

1:37:57 THAT TIME HAD BEEN PRETTY FLAT.

1:37:59 AND THE TRUTH HERE IS THAT THE

1:38:02 7 OR 8 PRODUCTS ARE RESPONSIBLE

1:38:04 FOR THE SPIKE IN THESE POISON

1:38:06 CONTROL CENTER CALLS, AND IT IS

1:38:08 WHY EVERYONE SHOULD BE ALARMED

1:38:10 IN AMERICA I THEN INCLUDED THE

1:38:12 NATIONAL I'M SORRY THE NMS LABS

1:38:14 STATEMENT ABOUT TESTING

1:38:17 OF MISOGYNY.

1:38:18 ANIMUS LABS IS THE LARGEST

1:38:20 FORENSIC TOXICOLOGY FIRM IN THE

1:38:21 COUNTRY.

1:38:22 THEY HANDLE A LOT OF THE

1:38:24 CORONERS AND MEDICAL EXAMINERS

1:38:25 TOX SCREEN WHEN FATALITIES

1:38:27 OCCUR THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH

1:38:29 ANY DRUG PRODUCT AND THEY

1:38:30 EVALUATE KRATOM CAUSED DEATH OR

1:38:33 KRATOM ASSOCIATED DEATHS AT

1:38:34 LEAST AS THEY HAVE BEEN

1:38:35 DESCRIBED BY MEDICAL EXAMINERS

1:38:38 .

1:38:38 UH, THEY HAVE NOW DETERMINED

1:38:40 THAT IT IS NO LONGER A VALID

1:38:43 TESTING METHODOLOGY FOR ANY

1:38:45 CORONER OR MEDICAL EXAMINER TO

1:38:47 SUGGEST THAT BECAUSE KRATOM WAS

1:38:49 PRESENT, MISOGYNY WAS PRESENT

1:38:51 THAT THAT SHOULD BE ATTRIBUTED

1:38:53 TO AS A CAUSE OF OR A

1:38:54 CONTRIBUTING FACTOR IN THE

1:38:55 DEATH.

1:38:56 IT IS MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT.

1:38:58 YOU WILL HEAR FAMILIES THAT

1:39:00 WILL TELL YOU THAT WE THAT THEY

1:39:02 EXPERIENCED A DEATH FROM A

1:39:04 NATURAL LEAF KRATOM PRODUCT

1:39:06 BECAUSE IT HAPPENED BEFORE THE

1:39:08 SEVEN PRODUCTS CAME ON THE

1:39:10 MARKET.

1:39:10 THAT OF COURSE IS DEBUNKED BY

1:39:12 WHAT WE SAW IN 2016.

1:39:14 BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY NOW NMS

1:39:16 LABS HAS RECOGNIZED THAT THE

1:39:18 COMPLEXITY OF THIS FOR MEDICAL

1:39:19 EXAMINERS AND CORONERS REQUIRES

1:39:22 A REEVALUATION OF ALL OF THAT.

1:39:25 WE OBVIOUSLY SHOULD HAVE A

1:39:27 GREAT EMPATHY FOR ANYONE WHO

1:39:29 EXPERIENCES THE LOSS OF A LOVED

1:39:30 ONE IN THEIR FAMILY, AND I DO

1:39:33 NOT DOUBT ANY OF THEM WHO

1:39:34 BELIEVE THAT KRATOM WAS THE

1:39:36 CAUSE OF THEIR DEATH BECAUSE

1:39:37 THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE TOLD BY A

1:39:39 CORONER OR MEDICAL EXAMINER.

1:39:40 BUT THE FACTS NOW SHOW THAT

1:39:43 THOSE FINDINGS BY THOSE

1:39:45 PROFESSIONALS NEED TO BE

1:39:47 REEXAMINED.

1:39:47 AND OBVIOUSLY THAT'S AN

1:39:48 IMPORTANT LEVEL.

1:39:49 THE LAST DOCUMENT I HAVE IS A

1:39:52 LETTER FROM SECRETARY BECERRA,

1:39:54 UH, IN MARCH 16TH OF 2022 TO

1:39:56 MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.

1:39:58 WHEN ASKED SPECIFICALLY

1:40:00 SPECIFICALLY WHAT ARE THE

1:40:02 HAZARDS OF CONSUMING KRATOM AND

1:40:04 AND SECRETARY BACERRA RESPONDED

1:40:07 BY SAYING AND YOU'LL SEE THE

1:40:08 HIGHLIGHTED PORTION ON THE

1:40:09 SECOND PAGE THAT ESSENTIALLY

1:40:11 SAYS THAT KRATOM DEATHS ARE

1:40:13 RARE BUT WHEN THEY DO OCCUR

1:40:17 THEY ARE BECAUSE OF ADULTERATED

1:40:18 PRODUCTS OR BECAUSE OF POLY

1:40:20 SUBSTANCE ABUSE.

1:40:21 AND SO THIS MYTHOLOGY THAT HAS

1:40:23 BEEN DEVELOPED AROUND THE

1:40:25 HAZARDS OF KRATOM IS NOW BEING

1:40:26 CLARIFIED TO THE NATIONAL

1:40:28 LEVEL.

1:40:29 WE APPLAUD WHAT, UH WHAT YOU'RE

1:40:31 DOING, MR FITZGERALD HERE TO

1:40:33 DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE

1:40:34 SYNTHETIC.

1:40:35 PRODUCTS THAT ARE DANGEROUS

1:40:37 OPIOIDS AND NATURAL LEAF

1:40:39 CREATING.

1:40:39 PRODUCTS BECAUSE I WILL

1:40:41 CONCLUDE BY TELLING YOU THAT I

1:40:43 HAVE SAT IN HUNDREDS

1:40:44 OF HEARINGS LIKE THESE AND I

1:40:46 HAVE HEARD THE APPEALS FROM

1:40:48 KRATOM CONSUMERS WHO RELY UPON

1:40:50 KRATOM IN ORDER TO SAVE THEIR

1:40:52 LIVES BECAUSE THEY ARE MANAGING

1:40:55 THEIR ACUTE AND CHRONIC PAIN

1:40:56 WITH KRATOM A NATURAL PLANT.

1:40:58 AND THAT DOESN'T BY THE WAY

1:41:00 MEAN IT'S SAFE BECAUSE IT HAS

1:41:02 TO BE SAFELY MANUFACTURED AND

1:41:02 REGULATED.

1:41:03 BUT THEY'RE MANAGING THAT ACUTE

1:41:05 AND CHRONIC PAIN AS AN

1:41:07 ALTERNATIVE TO OPIOIDS WHICH

1:41:09 OBVIOUSLY HAVE HIGH RISKS.

1:41:11 I'LL CONCLUDE WITH THIS

1:41:12 EXPERIENCE I GOT INTO AN UBER

1:41:14 DRIVING TO THE AIRPORT AND AS

1:41:17 YOU KNOW THE IF YOUR FIRST NAME

1:41:18 POPS UP ON THIS UH ON THE UBER

1:41:20 DRIVER AND THE UBER DRIVER

1:41:22 TURNED AROUND AND SAID TO ME HE

1:41:23 SAID ARE YOU MACCHIATO WITH THE

1:41:25 AK?

1:41:26 I SAID I AM AND HE SAID THE AK

1:41:29 SAVED MY LIFE BECAUSE I SERVED

1:41:32 TWO TOURS IN AFGHANISTAN.

1:41:34 I WAS BANGED UP.

1:41:35 I WAS IN THE VA PROGRAM, HE

1:41:36 SAID.

1:41:37 AND I WAS A ZOMBIE AND ONE

1:41:39 OF THE GUYS IN THAT TREATMENT

1:41:41 PROGRAM SAID YOU SHOULD TRY

1:41:42 KRATOM.

1:41:43 AND HE SAID IT SAVED ME BECAUSE

1:41:46 NOW I'M FUNCTIONING.

1:41:47 I HAVE MY FAMILY BACK, I HAVE

1:41:48 MY LIFE BACK.

1:41:49 I CAN SOCIALIZE WITH PEOPLE AND

1:41:51 THAT MESSAGE IS BEING REPEATED

1:41:53 OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

1:41:54 AND JUST LAST WEEK WE HAD UH,

1:41:56 MEETINGS IN WASHINGTON D.C.

1:41:58 WITH THE HOUSE FOREIGN AFFAIRS

1:42:00 I'M SORRY, THE VETERANS AFFAIRS

1:42:01 COMMITTEE WHERE THESE VETERANS

1:42:03 WERE ABLE TO EXPRESS THOSE

1:42:05 STORIES AND TELL THEM AND IT IS

1:42:07 CHANGING THE WAY THAT THE

1:42:08 FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS LOOKING

1:42:10 AT THIS ISSUE AND IT'S ONE THAT

1:42:12 WE THINK AND SUPPORT WHAT

1:42:14 YOU'RE TRYING TO DO HERE A BAN

1:42:16 DOES NOT IT DOES NOT ADDRESS

1:42:18 THE REAL ISSUES HERE.

1:42:20 IT HAS TO BE SPECIALIZED AND

1:42:21 TARGETED TO THOSE SYNTHETIC

1:42:23 PRODUCTS.

1:42:23 THANK YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY

1:42:24 TO BE HERE TODAY TO EXPRESS

1:42:26 THESE VIEWPOINTS TO YOU.

1:42:29 THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

1:42:30 UH WE'LL GO TO MATTHEW ONLINE.

1:42:33 HI.

1:42:33 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

1:42:34 WE CAN.

1:42:36 GREAT.

1:42:36 UH.

1:42:37 CHAIR MEMBERS.

1:42:38 OF THE COMMITTEE, THANK YOU

1:42:39 VERY MUCH FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.

1:42:40 MY NAME IS MATTHEW LUO.

1:42:41 I'M THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR

1:42:43 OF THE GLOBAL KRATOM COALITION

1:42:44 .

1:42:45 WE ARE AN ALLIANCE OF CONSUMERS

1:42:47 ,EXPERTS AND INDUSTRY LEADERS

1:42:48 UM, ALL PUSHING FOR THE

1:42:50 REGULATION OF NATURAL KRATOM

1:42:51 LEAF AND THIS CRITICAL

1:42:53 DISTINCTION THAT'S BEEN MADE

1:42:54 THROUGHOUT THE TESTIMONY TODAY

1:42:56 BETWEEN THESE SYNTHETIC

1:42:57 PRODUCTS THAT ARE MASQUERADING

1:42:59 AS NATURAL CREATIVITY UM HERE

1:43:01 TODAY TO SUPPORT UM UH DOCKET

1:43:05 1414 UH I THINK IT'S A WELL

1:43:07 THOUGHT OUT PIECE

1:43:08 OF LEGISLATION THAT WILL MAKE A

1:43:10 DIFFERENCE.

1:43:10 UM UH, TO BOSTON I WANT TO

1:43:13 BEGIN TO BY BEING VERY CLEAR

1:43:15 I'M NOT HERE TO SUPPORT ANY

1:43:17 SYNTHETIC, UH, PRODUCTS THAT

1:43:18 ARE ON THE MARKET MASQUERADING

1:43:19 AS NATURAL KRATOM.

1:43:21 WE ARE ONLY SPEAKING ABOUT

1:43:22 NATURAL KRATOM LEAF AND WE DO

1:43:24 NOT WANT, UM, ANY OF THESE

1:43:26 SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS THAT ARE

1:43:28 CAUSING SIGNIFICANT HARM ACROSS

1:43:29 THE NATION TO BE SOLD, UH, IN

1:43:32 BOSTON.

1:43:34 SO I THINK ONE OF THE MOST

1:43:35 CRITICAL THINGS THAT I WANT TO

1:43:36 ADDRESS IS THAT OFTEN WHEN WE

1:43:38 IN THESE HEARINGS BECAUSE IT'S

1:43:39 THE FIRST TIME MANY PEOPLE ARE

1:43:41 HEARING ABOUT CREATING ABOUT

1:43:43 CREATION, THEY ASSUME THE

1:43:44 CREATOR IS SOMETHING NEW.

1:43:45 I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT NATURAL

1:43:47 CREATES A LEAF IS NOT NEW.

1:43:48 IT'S BEEN.

1:43:49 CONSUMED FOR CENTURIES IN

1:43:50 SOUTHEAST ASIA.

1:43:51 UM, AND IT'S BEEN CONSUMED

1:43:52 SINCE THE 1970S IN THE UNITED

1:43:54 STATES WAS BROUGHT BACK BY

1:43:56 VIETNAM VETERANS AND HAS BEEN

1:43:57 CONSUMED EVER SINCE AND IS NOW

1:43:59 CONSUMED BY 23 MILLION

1:44:01 AMERICANS ACROSS THE UNITED

1:44:03 STATES AND CONSUMED SAFELY.

1:44:06 UM.

1:44:08 AND AND THE REASON WHY WE

1:44:09 CAN SAY IT'S CONSUME SAFELY IS

1:44:11 IF WE LOOK AT THE DATA IN

1:44:13 TOTALITY AND YOU LOOK AT IT IN

1:44:15 A RELATIVE LANDSCAPE AND NOT IN

1:44:16 ISOLATION WHEN YOU LOOK AT

1:44:18 POISON CONTROL CALLS, WHEN YOU

1:44:19 LOOK AT UM PHASE AND CASE

1:44:21 ADVERSE EVENTS, YOU'RE TALKING

1:44:23 ABOUT A TINY TINY FRACTION WHEN

1:44:26 COMPARED TO MANY OTHER WIDELY

1:44:27 USED SUBSTANCES.

1:44:29 THERE'S BEEN A LITANY

1:44:31 OF SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH UM,

1:44:33 THAT'S BEEN DONE UH, ON NATURAL

1:44:34 CREATIVE MANY OF WHICH IS

1:44:36 EMANATING OUT OF THE UNITED

1:44:37 STATES COMING IN FROM THE

1:44:38 UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA AT JOHN

1:44:40 HOPKINS UNIVERSITY, WASHINGTON

1:44:41 UNIVERSITY THERE'S MORE THAN

1:44:44 1000 SCIENTIFIC PAPERS THAT

1:44:46 HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED ON NATURAL

1:44:47 CREATIVE NEED FOR AND WE'D BE

1:44:49 HAPPY TO SHARE THE 1000 WITH

1:44:50 YOU AND THEN GIVE YOU SUMMARIES

1:44:53 THEREOF.

1:44:53 BUT I THINK EVEN MORE

1:44:55 IMPORTANTLY IF WE COMBINE THE

1:44:56 LONG TERM USE OF NATURAL

1:44:59 CREATINE INCLUDING ITS 50 YEARS

1:45:00 OF USE IN THE UNITED STATES,

1:45:02 THERE'S ALSO 18 HUMAN CLINICAL

1:45:05 TRIALS THAT HAVE BEEN DONE ON

1:45:06 NATURAL CREDIT TO BEEF.

1:45:07 THAT INCLUDES THE FDA CLINICAL

1:45:09 TRIAL WHICH HAS BEEN SPOKEN

1:45:11 ABOUT BY THE TWO AND UH

1:45:13 PANELISTS.

1:45:13 I WON'T.

1:45:14 GO INTO.

1:45:14 MORE DETAIL THERE, BUT THERE

1:45:16 IS A VIEW OUT THERE THAT

1:45:17 NATURAL CREATINE IS NEW, THAT

1:45:19 THERE ISN'T A LOT OF SCIENTIFIC

1:45:20 RESEARCH TO SUPPORT IT SAFETY

1:45:22 I'M HERE TO TELL YOU THAT IT'S

1:45:23 NOT TRUE.

1:45:24 THERE'S A LITANY OF RESEARCH

1:45:26 AND THAT THAT SHOWS THAT IT IS

1:45:28 SAFE.

1:45:29 I THINK SOMETHING ELSE I WANT

1:45:31 TO ADDRESS AND UM UH MR.

1:45:33 HOW TO ADDRESS THAT UM, IS

1:45:34 DEATHS RELATED TO CREIGHTON AND

1:45:37 AGAIN I THINK WE'VE GOT A WE'VE

1:45:39 GOT A PROBLEM BECAUSE WHEN YOU

1:45:42 SEE HEADLINES FOR A STATE COME

1:45:44 UP AND SAY THERE'S BEEN 50

1:45:46 DEATHS AND FROM CREIGHTON OVER

1:45:48 A 50 YEAR PERIOD THAT MAKES A

1:45:50 GOOD HEADLINE.

1:45:51 BUT WHEN YOU LOOK INTO THE

1:45:53 NUANCE OF THE DATA, THE

1:45:56 UNDERLYING UNDERLYING

1:45:57 TOXICOLOGY REPORTS AND THE

1:45:59 AUTOPSY REPORTS YOU ALWAYS FIND

1:46:01 A MUCH MORE COMPLICATED STORY.

1:46:03 UM, I'LL GIVE SOME EXAMPLES

1:46:05 BECAUSE WE FOLLOW IT ACROSS THE

1:46:07 UNITED STATES TO GET THIS AND

1:46:08 THIS DETAIL.

1:46:10 BUT WHEN WE SAY THAT 90%

1:46:13 OF THOSE CREIGHTON AND UH,

1:46:16 DEATHS OR CREIGHTON RELATED

1:46:17 DEATHS ARE POLY SUBSTANCE,

1:46:19 WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT JUST

1:46:21 RANDOM EVERYDAY SUBSTANCES.

1:46:23 WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FENTANYL,

1:46:24 HEROIN, COCAINE,

1:46:26 METHAMPHETAMINES WEIGHT.

1:46:27 CREIGHTON WAS JUST SIMPLY

1:46:29 DETECTED IN THAT AUTOPSY

1:46:31 DETECTION IS NOT CAUSATION.

1:46:32 AND IF YOU ARE DYING FROM

1:46:34 FENTANYL OR POTENTIALLY

1:46:37 COCAINE OR A GUNSHOT WOUND,

1:46:39 CREIGHTON MIGHT BE IN YOUR

1:46:40 SYSTEM.

1:46:40 BUT IT'S VERY HARD TO SUGGEST

1:46:42 THAT CREIGHTON IS WHAT KILLED

1:46:43 YOU WHEN YOU'VE EITHER BEEN

1:46:45 SHOT OR YOU'VE GOT FENTANYL ON

1:46:47 YOUR SYSTEM COCAINE,

1:46:48 METHAMPHETAMINES.

1:46:50 SO I WOULD I WOULD ADVISE TO

1:46:52 AVOID THE HEADLINE AND LOOK AT

1:46:54 THE NUANCED DETAILS.

1:46:56 UM UH CORRELATION IS NOT

1:46:58 CAUSATION.

1:46:59 DETECTION IS NOT CAUSATION.

1:47:01 UM AND AGAIN THE FDA HAS STATED

1:47:04 THAT CREIGHTON RELATED DEATHS

1:47:06 ARE RARE AND WHEN THEY DO OCCUR

1:47:08 THEY HAVE TYPICALLY POLY

1:47:09 SUBSTANCE AND AGAIN THOSE POLY

1:47:11 SUBSTANCES ARE OFTEN ILLICIT

1:47:13 DRUGS.

1:47:15 AND THE THE THE.

1:47:18 PRODUCTS THAT HAVE COME INTO

1:47:19 THE MARKET OVER THE LAST THREE

1:47:21 YEARS ARE NOT KRATOM THEY ARE

1:47:25 SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS.

1:47:26 WHAT THEY'VE DONE IS THEY'VE

1:47:27 USED CHEMICAL.

1:47:28 SYNTHESIS TO AMP UP THE AMOUNT

1:47:31 OF 7OH IN A PRODUCT BY A

1:47:33 THOUSAND TIMES.

1:47:34 THEY STRIP UP THE FIBER CONTENT

1:47:35 THAT'S FOUND IN NATURAL LEAF,

1:47:37 THE ANTIOXIDANTS AND ALL THE

1:47:39 OTHER 50 DIFFERENT ALKALOIDS

1:47:41 WHICH ALL WORK TOGETHER TO GIVE

1:47:43 CREDIT TO ITS UNIQUE EFFECTS

1:47:44 AND ALSO ITS SAFE EFFECTS AND

1:47:47 THEN THEN PUT IT ON TO THE UH,

1:47:48 THE MARKET IN TABLET FORM YOU

1:47:51 DO NOT FIND NATURAL CREATINE

1:47:52 LEAF IN TABLET FORM THE

1:47:54 MAJORITY OF THE SYNTHETIC

1:47:55 MARKET PROBABLY 70% OF IT IS IN

1:47:57 TABLET FORM.

1:47:58 THEY IN BROCCOLI COLORED

1:48:00 PACKAGES THEY LOOK LIKE

1:48:01 TRADITIONAL OPIOIDS.

1:48:02 THEY'RE OFTEN MARKETED IN A WAY

1:48:04 THAT WOULD MAKE YOU THINK

1:48:05 THEY'RE AN OPIOID WITH NAMES

1:48:07 LIKE OXEN, PIGS, UM COSMIC

1:48:10 LUDES.

1:48:10 AND THESE PRODUCTS ARE NOT

1:48:12 NATURAL CREATING THESE THEY'RE

1:48:13 DANGEROUS AND YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY

1:48:15 RIGHT TO WANT THEM OFF THE

1:48:17 MARKET.

1:48:17 I THINK WHAT'S CRITICAL HERE IS

1:48:19 THE DISTINCTION THAT WE'RE

1:48:20 MAKING IS NOT A DISTINCTION

1:48:21 THAT WE MADE UP AS THE JC OR

1:48:24 ANY OF THE ORGANIZATIONS RIGHT

1:48:25 IN.

1:48:25 FRONT OF YOU.

1:48:26 THIS IS A DISTINCTION THAT'S

1:48:28 VALIDATED BY THE LEADING

1:48:29 SCIENTISTS ON TRADE AND IN THE

1:48:31 UNITED STATES AND ALSO AS

1:48:32 YOU'VE HEARD AT NAUSEUM BY THE

1:48:34 DEA, UH, HHS AND FDA, THEY'VE

1:48:38 AND FILED THEIR NOTICES

1:48:40 OF INTENT TO SCHEDULE SYNTHETIC

1:48:42 UM ALKALOID PRODUCTS.

1:48:44 THE FIRST PART OF THAT IS DONE

1:48:45 WHICH IS MGM 15, MGM 16 AND AND

1:48:49 MICHIGAN IN SWEDEN DOXIL THE

1:48:52 SECOND PART WHICH IN MY VIEW IS

1:48:54 THE MOST.

1:48:54 IMPORTANT PART THAT IS THE 7 OR

1:48:57 8 PRODUCTS IS IN THE FINAL

1:48:58 REVIEW AND WE EXPECT THAT UM

1:49:00 SCHEDULING TO HAPPEN WITHIN THE

1:49:01 NEXT TWO WEEKS WHEN THAT

1:49:04 HAPPENS ACROSS THE UNITED

1:49:06 STATES, THESE SYNTHETIC

1:49:07 PRODUCTS WILL NOW BE ILLEGAL AS

1:49:09 THEY SHOULD BE AND NATURAL

1:49:11 KRATOM LEAF WILL BE PROTECTED

1:49:14 AND CARVED OUT.

1:49:15 WE HOPE TO SEE CONTINUED

1:49:17 REGULATION.

1:49:18 THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE THE

1:49:19 WORK IS DONE.

1:49:20 WE BELIEVE THE NATURAL

1:49:22 CREATIVITY SHOULD BE REGULATED

1:49:23 .

1:49:24 IT SHOULD NOT BE IN THE HANDS

1:49:25 OF CHILDREN.

1:49:26 IT SHOULD.

1:49:26 NOT BE MARKETED IN A WAY

1:49:28 THAT APPEALS TO CHILDREN.

1:49:29 IT SHOULD BE TESTED, IT SHOULD

1:49:31 BE VERIFIED AND IT SHOULDN'T BE

1:49:33 SYNTHETIC IN NATURE.

1:49:34 WE ALSO BELIEVE THAT IT SHOULD

1:49:35 BE LABELED APPROPRIATELY.

1:49:37 ALL DIETARY SUPPLEMENTS SHOULD

1:49:38 BE LABELED APPROPRIATELY, BUT

1:49:40 EVERY DIETARY SUPPLEMENT HAS A

1:49:41 DIFFERENT LEVEL OF RISK.

1:49:42 THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT YOU

1:49:44 NEED TO PUT ON A PACKAGE BASED

1:49:46 ON THE SIDE THE SCIENCE THAT

1:49:48 EXISTS AND WE'VE PUSHED FOR

1:49:49 THOSE LABELING STANDARDS

1:49:51 ACROSS, UM, THE UNITED STATES

1:49:53 AND YOU WILL FIND UH,

1:49:55 REGULATIONS THAT INCLUDE THOSE

1:49:56 LABELING STANDARDS IN IN AS

1:49:57 MANY AS 22 STATES AND MANY,

1:49:59 MANY LOCALITIES.

1:50:02 UM, WE SPOKEN A LITTLE BIT

1:50:03 ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING AND AT A

1:50:05 STATE LEVEL AND THIS DISCONNECT

1:50:07 WE'VE GOT THE FEDS THAT ARE

1:50:08 MOVING TO SCHEDULE THE

1:50:09 SYNTHETICS.

1:50:10 UM, THE GOVERNOR'S ISSUED HER

1:50:12 EXECUTIVE ORDER.

1:50:13 WHICH IS.

1:50:13 TEMPORARY TO DEAL WITH ALL

1:50:15 KRATOM UH, PRODUCTS.

1:50:17 THE LEGISLATURE IS CURRENTLY

1:50:19 CONSIDERING A BILL.

1:50:20 WHICH WILL COME UP IN

1:50:21 CONFERENCE.

1:50:21 COMMITTEE IN THE NEXT HOPEFULLY

1:50:22 COUPLE OF WEEKS THAT WILL

1:50:25 DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE

1:50:26 SYNTHETICS AND THE NATURAL

1:50:27 KRATOM, UM, AND HOPEFULLY PUT

1:50:29 FORWARD A REGULATORY STRUCTURE.

1:50:32 UH, I THINK SIMILAR TO WHAT'S

1:50:34 BEING DONE UM, UH IN BOSTON BUT

1:50:37 IT WOULD BE GREAT FOR BOSTON.

1:50:38 TO SHOW.

1:50:38 LEADERSHIP WITH THIS BILL THAT

1:50:41 HAS BEEN PUT FORWARD.

1:50:43 ALL THAT TO SAY, WE ARE VERY.

1:50:45 MUCH IN SUPPORT OF THIS

1:50:46 BILL.

1:50:47 WE AGREE THAT UM, THE UH A

1:50:49 DELAYED IMPLEMENTATION DATE TO

1:50:51 ALLOW THE FAITH TO ACT, TO

1:50:53 ALLOW THE STATE TO ACT IS THE

1:50:55 RIGHT THING TO DO.

1:50:56 AND I AGREE WITH

1:50:58 COUNCILOR FITZGERALD THAT YOU

1:50:59 DO NOT WANT TO BE IN A

1:51:00 SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE

1:51:01 NOTHING IF EVERYTHING FALLS

1:51:03 APART.

1:51:04 SO I THINK THIS IS A PRUDENT

1:51:05 APPROACH.

1:51:06 UH, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND

1:51:07 I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY

1:51:08 QUESTIONS.

1:51:11 THANK YOU SO MUCH.

1:51:12 UM I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S

1:51:13 TESTIMONY IS VERY THOROUGH.

1:51:15 UM, I FEEL LIKE A LOT OF MY

1:51:16 QUESTIONS WERE ASKED, BUT I

1:51:17 WILL GO TO MY COLLEAGUES, UH,

1:51:19 BECAUSE WE HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE

1:51:20 FOR PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

1:51:21 I THINK I'LL DO FIVE MINUTES

1:51:23 FOR QUESTIONING FOR THIS ROUND.

1:51:25 YEAH.

1:51:25 OKAY, GREAT.

1:51:26 UH, COUNCILOR FITZGERALD, YOU

1:51:27 HAVE THE FLOOR.

1:51:28 THANK YOU.

1:51:29 UH, JIM, I JUST WANT TO SAY

1:51:30 THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING UH,

1:51:32 FOR PARTICIPATING IN, UH,

1:51:34 TODAY'S PANEL, UH, AND GIVING

1:51:36 YOUR SIDE OF THINGS.

1:51:37 BUT.

1:51:37 UH.

1:51:38 FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM,

1:51:39 UH.

1:51:40 BOTH THE BOSS PUBLIC HEALTH

1:51:41 COMMISSION.

1:51:41 AND THOSE.

1:51:41 THAT UH OUR, UH FOR THE KRATOM

1:51:44 LEAF IS THAT I HAVEN'T HEARD

1:51:46 ANYONE STAND UP OR TESTIFY IN

1:51:49 SUPPORT OF THE SYNTHETIC OPIOID

1:51:51 .

1:51:52 708 AND I THINK WE'RE ALL IN

1:51:54 AGREEMENT THAT THAT IS

1:51:55 SOMETHING UH, THAT IS NOT

1:51:57 KRATOM IS DANGEROUS, UH, AND

1:52:00 POSES A HEALTH RISK TO FOLKS IF

1:52:02 IT IS AVAILABLE OVER THE

1:52:03 COUNTER, UH, WITH NO AGE

1:52:05 RESTRICTION.

1:52:06 AND SO, UM, I JUST WANT TO

1:52:08 DRIVE THAT POINT HOME BECAUSE I

1:52:09 THINK THAT IS THE POINT OF THIS

1:52:11 ORDINANCE TO MAKE SURE UH, THE

1:52:13 SYNTHETIC UM, PRODUCTS ARE OFF.

1:52:17 UM, I DID HAVE A QUESTION, BUT

1:52:19 I THINK YOU ANSWERED IT, SIR.

1:52:20 UH, MR BRADSHAW, ABOUT THE

1:52:22 RECOMMENDED TIMELINE FOR

1:52:23 EFFECTIVENESS OF THE ORDINANCE.

1:52:24 BUT YOU'RE SAYING WHENEVER THE

1:52:26 BAN IS WITHDRAWN SO YOU'RE

1:52:27 SAYING MAYBE ADD SOME LANGUAGE

1:52:29 IN THAT SAYS IF THE BAN

1:52:30 WHEREVER TO BE RESCINDED FROM

1:52:32 THE STATE THAT THIS ORDINANCE

1:52:34 COULD GO INTO EFFECT?

1:52:35 YEAH.

1:52:36 I'D EVEN GO FURTHER THAN

1:52:37 RESCINDED BY THE STATE BECAUSE

1:52:39 IT COULD UH AGAIN GO AWAY DUE

1:52:42 TO A COURT DECISION IN

1:52:43 LITIGATION.

1:52:44 IT COULD BE OVERCOME BY UH

1:52:47 LEGISLATION BY THE

1:52:50 MASSACHUSETTS LEGISLATURE.

1:52:51 SO I WOULD SAY WHENEVER THE THE

1:52:55 UH GOVERNOR'S EMERGENCY ORDER

1:52:57 UH UH IS NO LONGER EFFECTIVE

1:52:59 FOR ANY OF THOSE REASONS NOT

1:53:00 JUST BECAUSE IT SUNSETS OR IS

1:53:03 WITHDRAWN.

1:53:04 GOT YOU KNOW THAT'S HELPFUL SO

1:53:05 I CAN WORK WITH LEGAL TEAMS TO

1:53:07 TRY AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THE

1:53:08 RIGHT WORDING IS TO MAKE SURE

1:53:09 THAT WE COVER ALL OF THE

1:53:11 POTENTIAL WAYS THAT IT IS NO

1:53:12 LONGER EFFECTIVE.

1:53:13 UM, AND ADD THAT IN UM.

1:53:16 SO WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE

1:53:18 LINE HERE.

1:53:18 TO NOT BE SUED?

1:53:20 RIGHT.

1:53:21 I UNDERSTAND SOMETHING LIKE

1:53:22 WHEN UH, THERE'S LEGAL ISSUES

1:53:24 THAT GO THROUGH HERE AND I'M

1:53:26 SAYING WELL THIS ISN'T THE

1:53:27 WHOLE LEAF.

1:53:28 THIS IS JUST THE SYNTHETIC.

1:53:30 UH, ARE YOU GUYS.

1:53:31 FAMILIAR WITH ANY OTHER LEGAL.

1:53:33 ACTION AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE

1:53:35 IF WE LOOK TO BAN 70H UH,

1:53:38 PRODUCTS THAT, UH THERE IS

1:53:41 PUSHBACK.

1:53:42 UH, FROM ANY IN A LEGAL

1:53:44 PERSPECTIVE ON THAT?

1:53:45 NO, I THINK HONESTLY THE SEVEN

1:53:47 INDUSTRY KNOWS THAT THEY'RE

1:53:49 OPERATING, UH, IN VIOLATION

1:53:51 OF THE LAW.

1:53:52 I MEAN, HONESTLY, OVER A YEAR

1:53:55 AGO THE FOOD AND DRUG

1:53:57 ADMINISTRATION, UH, SENT

1:53:58 WARNING LETTERS TO THE SEVEN

1:53:59 LARGEST MANUFACTURERS OF THESE

1:54:02 SEVEN UH, UM HYDROXY PRODUCTS

1:54:04 AND TOLD THEM THAT UNDER THE

1:54:05 FOOD DRUG COSMETIC ACT THAT

1:54:08 THEY'RE THEY'RE ILLEGAL THEY'RE

1:54:09 ILLEGAL DRUGS.

1:54:10 SO THE PROBLEM THE FDA HAS IS

1:54:13 IT'S SO MUCH.

1:54:15 EASIER TO ENFORCE IF THE DEA IS

1:54:17 SCHEDULED THEM.

1:54:18 AND THAT'S WHY THE FDA ASKED

1:54:20 THE DEA TO PLACE THESE

1:54:22 SYNTHETIC COMPOUNDS ON, UH,

1:54:25 SCHEDULE ONE OF THE CONTROLLED

1:54:26 SUBSTANCES ACT BECAUSE IT JUST

1:54:28 FOR ENFORCEMENT PURPOSES IT

1:54:30 MAKES IT EASIER FOR THE FDA.

1:54:32 BUT THESE THESE COMPANIES

1:54:33 ALREADY KNOW THE FDA HAS

1:54:34 ALREADY TOLD THEM THAT THEY'RE

1:54:35 MARKETING THESE PRODUCTS IN

1:54:37 VIOLATION OF THE LAW.

1:54:39 AND AS A RESULT I MEAN, THAT'S

1:54:41 ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THEY'RE

1:54:42 REALLY DIFFICULT EVEN TO TRACK

1:54:44 THESE COMPANIES DOWN.

1:54:45 THEY HIDE WHERE THEY'RE

1:54:46 MANUFACTURED.

1:54:46 I WAS GOING TO MY NEXT QUESTION

1:54:48 IS WHERE ARE THESE SYNTHETIC

1:54:49 PRODUCTS PRODUCED?

1:54:50 UH IS IT IS IT.

1:54:51 SO THERE'S.

1:54:52 ONE COMPANY.

1:54:52 IN THE COUNTRY IS IT IN HERE AS

1:54:54 WELL?

1:54:55 YEAH.

1:54:56 NO.

1:54:56 UH, COMPANIES IN THE U.S. ARE

1:54:59 MANUFACTURING.

1:54:59 THESE PRODUCTS.

1:55:00 UH, ONE OF THE LARGEST UM,

1:55:03 MANUFACTURERS IS AN ENTITY

1:55:04 CALLED AMERICAN CHARM AND THEIR

1:55:06 CEO VINCE SANDERS WHO'S LIKE

1:55:10 OTHERS IN THIS SHADY BUSINESS

1:55:12 IS A CONVICTED FELON.

1:55:13 HE'S, UH, TWICE BEEN CONVICTED

1:55:15 UNDER FEDERAL LAWS

1:55:17 OF TRAFFICKING IN CONTROLLED

1:55:18 SUBSTANCES.

1:55:18 THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO, UH, YOU

1:55:22 KNOW, AREN'T, YOU KNOW,

1:55:24 MAINSTREAM LEGITIMATE, UH,

1:55:27 ACTORS.

1:55:28 AND IN AN INTERVIEW HE RECENTLY

1:55:30 TOLD SOMEONE THAT OF THE SEVEN

1:55:32 COMPANIES THAT RECEIVED WARNING

1:55:34 LETTERS THAT HE WAS ACTUALLY

1:55:35 MAKING THE PRODUCT FOR SIX

1:55:37 OF THEM SO HE WAS PUTTING THEIR

1:55:39 LABELS ON THE PRODUCTS.

1:55:40 BUT HE WAS THE THE THE MAIN

1:55:42 PURVEYOR OF THIS I WILL SAY

1:55:44 THAT UM, A NUMBER OF HIS

1:55:46 MANUFACTURING FACILITIES HAVE

1:55:47 BEEN RAIDED BY THE FEDERAL

1:55:49 GOVERNMENT NOW UM, AND UH,

1:55:52 FORCED RECALLS AND INITIALLY

1:55:55 YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE

1:55:57 REASONS WHY WE'VE MOVED TO AT

1:55:59 THE FEDERAL LEVEL TO A BAN

1:56:01 BEYOND 7 OR 8 IS AGAIN THIS

1:56:03 VINCE SAUNDERS PUBLICLY STATED

1:56:05 THAT WELL, WHEN SOMEONE IS GONE

1:56:07 WE'LL JUST INTRODUCE A NEW

1:56:08 COMPOUND AND NOW THE DEA HAS

1:56:10 GOTTEN AHEAD OF THAT BY ALSO

1:56:11 NOW SCHEDULING PSEUDO AND

1:56:13 DOXING ALL UH PSEUDO AND DOXIL

1:56:17 UH MGM 15 THE MGM 16 SO THEY'RE

1:56:19 TRYING.

1:56:19 TO.

1:56:20 YOU KNOW, UM STAY ONE STEP

1:56:22 AHEAD OF THESE THESE BAD UH,

1:56:25 ACTORS BUT I WILL TELL YOU THE

1:56:26 ONE SEVEN WHICH IS SCHEDULED I

1:56:28 ANTICIPATE THAT THERE'S GOING

1:56:29 TO BE SIGNIFICANT ACTIONS

1:56:31 BROUGHT BY THE FEDERAL

1:56:33 GOVERNMENT AGAINST A NUMBER

1:56:34 OF THESE, UH, PLAYERS FOR THEIR

1:56:36 BLATANT VIOLATION OF FEDERAL

1:56:38 LAW.

1:56:38 AND I'LL JUST ADD IT.

1:56:39 I JUST WANT TO BE CLEAR IN THE

1:56:41 TWO WEEKS TWO WEEKS FROM NOW IT

1:56:43 COULD BE THIS COULD BE SEVEN

1:56:44 COULD BE ILLEGAL NATIONWIDE IS

1:56:46 THAT I WANT TO MAKE SURE I

1:56:48 UNDERSTOOD THAT CORRECTLY AND

1:56:49 THAT'S COMING FROM.

1:56:51 DE DE DE.

1:56:52 DE DE.

1:56:53 DE YEAH THE DEA PUT OUT A

1:56:55 NOTICE OF INTENT TO SCHEDULE

1:56:56 BACK ON JULY 1ST.

1:56:57 OKAY.

1:56:58 UM SO THAT ANNOUNCED TO THE

1:57:00 WORLD AND THEY SAID IT COULD BE

1:57:01 DONE AS EARLY AS AUGUST 5TH.

1:57:03 UH, BUT THEN ON AUGUST 25TH THE

1:57:06 DEA SCHEDULED THREE COMPOUNDS.

1:57:08 THEY PLACED THEM ON SCHEDULE

1:57:09 ONE AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO

1:57:11 SEVEN AND EIGHT, THEY THEY

1:57:13 EXTENDED THE COMMENT PERIOD.

1:57:15 YEAH FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS UH

1:57:16 TO GET ADDITIONAL COMMENTS.

1:57:18 BUT THAT COMMENT PERIOD IS NOW

1:57:20 UM UH EXPIRED WHEN I SAY TWO

1:57:22 WEEKS THAT'S JUST BASED ON MY

1:57:23 OWN EXPERIENCE UH, WORKING WITH

1:57:25 THE FDA, THE VA ON SCHEDULING

1:57:27 DRUGS UM, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GO

1:57:30 THROUGH THE SAME KIND

1:57:32 OF PROCESS YOU WOULD UNDER THE

1:57:34 ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES ACT

1:57:35 FOR PURPOSES OF RESPONDING TO

1:57:38 ALL THOSE COMMENTS SO THEY CAN

1:57:39 ACT A LOT FASTER AND I THINK

1:57:41 COULD COULD SCHEDULE IT BY

1:57:44 OCTOBER 1ST.

1:57:44 THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S

1:57:46 ABSOLUTELY GOING TO HAPPEN.

1:57:48 BUT IF I HAD CONTACT.

1:57:49 I WOULD SAY UH BY BY AROUND

1:57:51 THAT TIME.

1:57:52 IT'S ENCOURAGING TO HEAR THAT

1:57:53 THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS AT

1:57:55 LEAST ON THIS MOVING IN THE

1:57:56 RIGHT DIRECTION OF TRYING TO

1:57:57 TAKE THE PROPER STEPS.

1:57:59 SO I DO APPRECIATE THAT'S MY

1:58:00 TIME CHAIR.

1:58:00 THANK YOU SO MUCH.

1:58:02 THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN.

1:58:05 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR AND

1:58:07 THANK YOU TO THE PANEL THAT

1:58:09 OFFERED TESTIMONY.

1:58:10 WAS VERY HELPFUL.

1:58:11 LEARNED A LOT.

1:58:14 ESPECIALLY THE DIFFERENCE

1:58:15 OF KRATOM IN SYNTHETIC KRATOM.

1:58:18 AS WELL.

1:58:19 UM.

1:58:22 SO YOU YOU AGREE THAT THE

1:58:25 SYNTHETIC.

1:58:26 SHOULD BE.

1:58:28 ILLEGAL BUT YOU'RE.

1:58:30 ADVOCATING FOR OBVIOUSLY THE.

1:58:34 KRATOM TO BE LEGAL.

1:58:35 IS THAT IS THAT FAIR TO SAY

1:58:36 YES.

1:58:37 YEAH.

1:58:38 UH, ALTHOUGH OUR

1:58:39 ORGANIZATION ABSOLUTELY

1:58:40 SUPPORTS COMMONSENSE

1:58:42 REGULATIONS AROUND THE

1:58:43 MARKETING OF KRATOM, THE

1:58:44 SYNTHETICS ABSOLUTELY BAN

1:58:45 THEY'RE EVIL.

1:58:47 THEY HAVE NO PLACE BEING, UH,

1:58:49 AVAILABLE TO THE GENERAL

1:58:49 PUBLIC.

1:58:50 NATURAL KRATOM SHOULD BE

1:58:52 AVAILABLE BUT WE DO SUPPORT UH

1:58:54 REGULATIONS AROUND IT,

1:58:55 INCLUDING THE AGE GATING THAT

1:58:57 YOU PROPOSED.

1:58:58 OKAY.

1:58:59 DOES FREEDOM ACT AS A, UM,

1:59:02 SIMILAR TO SUBOXONE?

1:59:04 DOES IT HELP PEOPLE GET OFF

1:59:06 OF UH WHAT THAT THAT ARE GOING

1:59:08 THROUGH WITHDRAWALS OF DRUGS?

1:59:09 DOES IT HELP IN THAT REGARD?

1:59:11 UH I THINK THAT'S THE QUESTION

1:59:12 THAT THE IN A YOU KNOW EACH

1:59:13 WANTS TO KNOW AND THAT'S

1:59:14 EXACTLY WHY THEY FUNDED THIS

1:59:15 STUDY THAT UH MR.

1:59:17 HAD OUT UH REFERENCED DURING

1:59:18 HIS TESTIMONY IS THERE'S A LOT

1:59:20 OF EVIDENCE THAT IT DOES AND SO

1:59:23 THE NIH WANTS TO STUDY WHETHER

1:59:25 IN FACT.

1:59:26 THAT'S THAT'S CORRECT.

1:59:29 THE AGAIN, WHEN I WAS WHEN I

1:59:31 WAS A PROBATION OFFICER, A LOT

1:59:33 OF PEOPLE THAT WERE ON DRUGS OR

1:59:35 COMING OFF OF UM DRUGS WERE

1:59:37 USING SUBOXONE.

1:59:40 UM.

1:59:41 BUT IS.

1:59:42 THAT THE CASE THAT.

1:59:43 PEOPLE COULD USE KRATOM TOOK

1:59:45 THEM OFF TO COME OFF OTHER

1:59:47 ILLEGAL DRUGS?

1:59:48 THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

1:59:49 THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF DRUG

1:59:51 ABUSE HAS FUNDED OVER $100

1:59:53 MILLION IN STUDIES ON KRATOM

1:59:55 AND PART OF THAT RESEARCH HAS

1:59:58 PROVEN THAT, WHICH IS WHY NIH

2:00:00 HAS NOW EMBARKED ON THIS

2:00:02 INVESTIGATIONAL NEW DRUG

2:00:03 APPLICATION FOR METROLOGY TO

2:00:06 SEE IF IT HELPS PEOPLE GET OFF

2:00:08 OF OPIOID USE.

2:00:09 BUT THE THE EVIDENCE IS CLEAR

2:00:11 THAT PEOPLE ARE FINDING IT TO

2:00:13 BE AN EFFECTIVE ALTERNATIVE UH

2:00:16 METROLOGY NEED OR KRATOM

2:00:18 DOESN'T REDUCE PAIN LIKE AN

2:00:20 OPIOID.

2:00:20 AN OPIOID WILL TAKE YOU FROM A

2:00:22 TEN TO A ZERO.

2:00:24 UH METROLOGY WILL GET YOU TO

2:00:25 MAYBE A 4 OR 3 BUT YOU CAN

2:00:28 MANAGE THAT PAIN AND YOU DO NOT

2:00:30 HAVE THE RISKS THAT ARE

2:00:31 ASSOCIATED WITH SIGNATURE

2:00:32 OPIOIDS OF OVERDOSE AND AND

2:00:35 OBVIOUSLY A DEATH AND I THINK

2:00:37 THAT YOUR YOUR COMPARISON IS

2:00:39 ACCURATE.

2:00:39 PEOPLE WERE USING SUBOXONE WITH

2:00:41 THOSE OTHER DRUGS NOW KRATOM

2:00:43 WHICH DOESN'T HAVE EVEN THE THE

2:00:45 UH ADVERSE EVENTS ASSOCIATED

2:00:47 WITH SUBOXONE USE UH IS A MUCH

2:00:49 BETTER ALTERNATIVE AND THAT'S

2:00:51 WHY UH WE'RE SEEING NIH TAKE A

2:00:54 BIG INTEREST IN THIS.

2:00:55 THANK YOU.

2:00:56 I'D LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION TO

2:00:57 THE GENTLEMAN.

2:00:58 UM, ON ZOOM I KNOW YOU SAID, UM

2:01:02 THANK YOU.

2:01:02 THANK YOU SIR, I KNOW YOU

2:01:03 MENTIONED SOME STUDIES THAT YOU

2:01:07 HAVE SEEN OF OF VETERANS THAT

2:01:10 MAY HAVE BEEN USED IN KRATOM.

2:01:12 IS THAT.

2:01:13 IS THAT ACCURATE?

2:01:15 I THINK MR.

2:01:16 HEAD OUT HEAD OUT TALKED ABOUT

2:01:18 .

2:01:18 THE THE VETERANS.

2:01:20 UH ONE.

2:01:21 THING I WILL SAY IS THAT IS

2:01:22 A VERY ACTIVE COMMUNITY

2:01:24 OF VETERANS THAT HAVE FOUND

2:01:25 BENEFIT FROM NATURAL CRATER

2:01:27 LEAF.

2:01:27 UM BUT I THINK THIS THAT OURS

2:01:29 IS BEST POSITION TO DISCUSS

2:01:31 THAT AS HE MENTIONED IT IN HIS

2:01:32 TESTIMONY.

2:01:33 AND WE WE'VE ACTUALLY MET WITH

2:01:36 THE DIRECTOR OF THE HEALTH.

2:01:37 UH.

2:01:39 DEPARTMENT IN THE OFFICE

2:01:40 OF VETERANS AFFAIRS LAST WEEK

2:01:41 WITH A GROUP OF VETERANS AND

2:01:44 THE VA IS VERY INTERESTED IN

2:01:47 NOW EXPLORING AND OPENING UP A

2:01:49 PILOT STUDY WITHIN THEIR SYSTEM

2:01:51 .

2:01:51 THEY'VE ALREADY DONE SO BY THE

2:01:52 WAY, WITH THE WITH UH,

2:01:54 PSILOCYBIN WHICH IS A VERY

2:01:56 POWERFUL DRUG.

2:01:57 BUT PEOPLE IN THE VETERANS

2:01:59 ADMINISTRATION ARE FINDING IT

2:02:00 TO BE USEFUL AND THEY'RE BIG

2:02:02 CHAMPION OF THAT AND NOW

2:02:03 THEY'RE EXPANDING IT TO KRATOM.

2:02:06 SO THERE IS THERE IS A PILOT

2:02:07 PROGRAM WITH UM FOR VETERANS

2:02:10 WITH KRATOM IS THAT IS THAT.

2:02:12 THEY WERE WILLING TO START THE

2:02:14 PROCESS OF A PILOT PROGRAM IN

2:02:15 THE VA HEALTH SYSTEM.

2:02:16 AND WHAT WOULD THOSE AND I AND

2:02:19 I WORK ON A LOT OF VETERANS

2:02:20 ISSUES OUTSIDE OF THIS JOB.

2:02:22 UM I WORK WITH THE DISABLED

2:02:23 VETERANS ADMINISTRATION,

2:02:25 DISABLED AMERICAN VETERANS

2:02:26 RATHER.

2:02:27 BUT WHY WOULD A VETERAN NEED TO

2:02:31 USE KRATOM?

2:02:32 IS IT IS IT FOR MENTAL HEALTH

2:02:33 AND PTSD RELATED ISSUES?

2:02:36 IT IS AND ALSO PAIN ISSUES

2:02:38 ASSOCIATED WITH SERVICE RELATED

2:02:39 INJURIES.

2:02:40 UH WE HAVE A A GROUP WITHIN THE

2:02:43 AMERICAN KRATOM ASSOCIATION

2:02:46 OF VETERANS AND WE RUN THIS

2:02:48 PROGRAM UH AND I HEAR FROM THEM

2:02:50 EVERY DAY.

2:02:50 I WOULD LOVE TO CONNECT YOU

2:02:52 WITH SOME OF THESE VETERANS WHO

2:02:53 CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THEIR

2:02:55 EXPERIENCE BECAUSE IT IS PTSD.

2:02:58 IT IS SOME OF THE UH THE YOU

2:03:00 KNOW, THE IMPAIRMENTS THAT

2:03:01 THESE SERVICE MEMBERS COME BACK

2:03:03 FROM THEIR SERVICE AND THEY'VE

2:03:04 GOT TO DEAL WITH ASSOCIATED

2:03:05 OF COURSE WITH THEIR UH, PAIN

2:03:07 ISSUES RELATED TO THEIR

2:03:08 INJURIES.

2:03:09 SO THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PART

2:03:10 OF OUR RESEARCH AND I WOULD BE

2:03:12 GLAD TO CONNECT YOU WITH SOME

2:03:13 OF THOSE VETERANS.

2:03:14 I, UH THANK YOU.

2:03:15 I WOULD WELCOME THAT

2:03:16 OPPORTUNITY.

2:03:16 I DON'T HAVE TO UM, UH, LISTEN

2:03:19 TO THEM AND AND UNDERSTAND FROM

2:03:21 THEM DIRECTLY ON THE BENEFITS

2:03:24 OF THIS BUT, UH, MAYBE YOU

2:03:26 COULD FOLLOW UP WITH ME IF

2:03:27 THAT'S OKAY.

2:03:27 I'LL DO THAT.

2:03:28 AND IF I COULD JUST REFER YOU

2:03:29 AS A QUICK BEFORE I GET ALL THE

2:03:31 VETERANS TO YOU.

2:03:32 UH, ON THE AMERICAN KRATOM.ORG

2:03:34 WEBSITE WE HAVE AN ADVOCACY

2:03:37 VIDEO OF A SEAL TEAM SIX MEMBER

2:03:41 WHO LOST HIS FAMILY, HIS HOUSE

2:03:43 HIS HIS ENTIRE LIFE WHILE HE

2:03:45 WAS IN THE VA SYSTEM AND HE

2:03:47 FOUND KRATOM AND THAT VIDEO

2:03:49 WILL SHOW YOU IT SAVED HIM AND

2:03:50 HIS NEW WIFE, UH, CALLED ME ONE

2:03:52 DAY AND TOLD ME HIS STORY AND

2:03:54 SAID YOU'VE GOT TO INTERVIEW

2:03:55 HIM AND WE DID AND IT'S UP ON

2:03:57 OUR WEBSITE BUT I'LL GET YOU

2:03:58 ALSO OTHER VETERANS WHO CAN

2:03:59 SPEAK.

2:03:59 OKAY.

2:04:00 AND MADAM CHAIR, MAY I ASK ONE

2:04:02 FINAL QUESTION?

2:04:02 YEP.

2:04:03 BUT IS THE FINAL IS THE MAIN

2:04:06 POINT?

2:04:08 IS THE MAIN POINT OR THE

2:04:11 ULTIMATE GOAL IS.

2:04:13 IS IT TO GET OFF KRATOM SO YOU

2:04:15 YOU'RE BASICALLY LIVING WITHOUT

2:04:18 ANY SUBSTANCES IN YOUR BODY OR

2:04:22 ARE YOU SAYING THAT KRATOM IS

2:04:24 NECESSARY FOR YOU TO LIVE A

2:04:26 HEALTHY LIFE?

2:04:28 SO I THINK BOTH UH YOU CAN USE

2:04:30 KRATOM TO GET OFF OF A AN

2:04:32 ADDICTION TO A.

2:04:34 SUBSTANCE AND THEN YOU'RE GONE

2:04:35 FROM THAT.

2:04:36 UH, MOST PEOPLE ARE USING IT TO

2:04:39 MANAGE ACUTE AND CHRONIC PAIN.

2:04:40 I'VE BEEN A KRATOM CONSUMER FOR

2:04:42 TEN YEARS BECAUSE WHEN I WAS

2:04:44 YOUNG AND VERY STUPID I RACED

2:04:45 MOTORCYCLES IN THE DESERT AND

2:04:47 BANGED MYSELF UP PRETTY GOOD

2:04:48 AND I'M PAYING FOR IT NOW I'M

2:04:50 76 YEARS OLD.

2:04:51 I HAVE, YOU KNOW, ARTHRITIS

2:04:52 PAIN.

2:04:53 I CAME HERE TODAY AND I KNOW

2:04:55 THE QUESTION WAS ASKED ABOUT

2:04:56 IMPAIRMENT.

2:04:57 UH I DON'T HAVE IMPAIRMENT.

2:04:58 WELL YOU COULD YOU MAY THINK I

2:04:59 DO.

2:05:00 I DON'T THINK I HAVE

2:05:01 IMPAIRMENT.

2:05:02 UH, I'VE HAD TO GO OFF

2:05:04 OF KRATOM FOR SOME EXTENDED

2:05:06 TRIPS OVERSEAS.

2:05:06 I DON'T HAVE ANY OF THE YOU

2:05:07 KNOW, THE CRAVINGS FOR IT.

2:05:09 IT'S IT'S A DIFFERENT.

2:05:11 KIND OF SUBSTANCE WHICH.

2:05:12 IS WHY NAIDA IS SO

2:05:14 INTERESTED IN IT AND WHY THEY

2:05:15 PUBLISHED SO MANY STUDIES ON

2:05:16 IT.

2:05:17 THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.

2:05:18 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

2:05:19 THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN.

2:05:21 COUNCILOR CULPEPER YOU HAVE

2:05:22 FIVE MINUTES.

2:05:23 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

2:05:24 UH, MR LOWE, DID YOU HAVE ANY

2:05:26 WRITTEN TESTIMONY THAT YOU

2:05:28 SUBMITTED?

2:05:29 UH, I DID.

2:05:30 NOT GET A CHANCE TO SUBMIT.

2:05:32 MINE, BUT I WOULD BE HAPPY TO

2:05:33 DO SO.

2:05:35 PLEASE.

2:05:36 UH.

2:05:37 YES, SIR.

2:05:38 AND.

2:05:40 AND MR HAD A AND THAT NIGHT

2:05:44 A INFORMATION THAT IS SUBMITTED

2:05:47 REGARDING THE RESEARCH THAT

2:05:50 THAT WAS JUST IN ANIMALS IS

2:05:52 THAT CORRECT?

2:05:54 IT HADN'T GOTTEN TO THE POINT

2:05:56 WHERE THEY DID ANY OF THAT

2:05:57 TESTING ON HUMANS.

2:05:59 IT WAS JUST IN ANIMALS.

2:06:01 IS THAT CORRECT?

2:06:02 SO THE FUNDING FROM NAIDA UH

2:06:05 HAS LARGELY BEEN IN BOTH

2:06:08 SURVEYS OF CONSUMERS AND

2:06:10 ANIMALS.

2:06:10 THERE HAVE BEEN SEPARATELY UH

2:06:13 HUMAN TRIALS.

2:06:14 ON KRATOM TYPICALLY FOR A NEW

2:06:17 DRUG APPLICATION THE UH THE

2:06:19 COMPANY CONDUCTS A HUMAN TRIAL

2:06:21 UNDER THE STANDARDS PROVIDED BY

2:06:22 THE FOOD AND DRUG

2:06:23 ADMINISTRATION FOR THOSE KINDS

2:06:25 OF STUDIES.

2:06:26 NOW KRATOM HAS NOT BEEN

2:06:27 SUBMITTED AS A NEW DRUG

2:06:29 APPLICATION BUT THERE HAVE BEEN

2:06:30 HUMAN CLINICAL TRIALS ON IT.

2:06:31 BUT IN THE INFORMATION YOU

2:06:33 SUBMITTED IT HADN'T BEEN TESTED

2:06:36 ON ANY HUMANS.

2:06:37 YES ON ANIMALS.

2:06:39 YEAH.

2:06:40 AND I'M GLAD TO SUBMIT TO

2:06:41 YOU SOME HUMAN CLINICAL TRIAL

2:06:43 DATA THE PAPER I GUESS WHAT I

2:06:45 MEAN AND.

2:06:45 WHAT YOU AND WHAT YOU GAVE

2:06:47 US IT WAS JUST IN HUMANS AND

2:06:49 ANIMALS THAT HADN'T BEEN TESTED

2:06:51 ON HUMANS YET.

2:06:53 WELL THE.

2:06:53 ACTUAL THE THE FDA THOSE

2:06:55 FINDINGS.

2:06:55 AND WHAT YOU SUBMITTED HERE.

2:06:57 YES.

2:06:58 YES, SIR.

2:06:59 UH.

2:07:00 VINCENT ON ANIMALS NO.

2:07:02 IF I IF I COULD POINT YOU TO

2:07:04 THE THE STUDY THAT WAS DONE BY

2:07:05 THE FDA THAT THOSE FINDINGS.

2:07:07 OKAY, LET ME JUST READ THIS TO

2:07:09 YOU AND I SCIENTISTS ARE

2:07:10 PLANNING TO CONDUCT THE FIRST

2:07:12 RANDOMIZED, DOUBLE BLIND,

2:07:15 PLACEBO CONTROLLED STUDY TO

2:07:16 ASSESS THE SAFETY AND

2:07:18 TOLERABILITY OF THE MIGHTY

2:07:20 GRIND NINE FORMATION IN HUMANS.

2:07:23 THE COMPOUND IN ISOLATION IS

2:07:25 YET TO BE STUDIED IN HUMANS

2:07:27 WITH THE INDIAN EFFECT.

2:07:29 INVESTIGATORS CAN NOW BEGIN

2:07:30 THAT WORK AND SO IT'S SAYING

2:07:33 THAT IT'S ONLY BEEN TESTED IN

2:07:36 THE INFORMATION YOU SUBMIT.

2:07:38 IT SAYS IN ANIMAL MODELS

2:07:41 NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE AND THE

2:07:43 INFORMATION YOU SAY SUBMITTED

2:07:46 BEFORE US ON HUMANS.

2:07:49 SO UH, COUNCILMAN CULPEPPER,

2:07:53 THE DISTINCTION IS THAT IT'S

2:07:54 THE FIRST FUNDED STUDY BY NIGHT

2:07:57 OF FULL ON HUMANS.

2:07:59 NO THAT UNDERSTAND THAT BUT NOT

2:08:00 IN HERE BECAUSE IT'S SAYING

2:08:02 THAT IT HAS NOT BEEN STUDIED IN

2:08:05 HUMANS.

2:08:06 SO THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE ON

2:08:08 DRUG ABUSE LIKELY IS NOT AWARE

2:08:10 OF THE HUMAN CLINICAL TRIALS

2:08:11 THAT HAVE BEEN DONE BECAUSE

2:08:12 THEY ARE BEING DONE IN PURSUIT

2:08:15 OF THE FDA'S REQUIREMENT UNDER

2:08:17 THE DIETARY SUPPLEMENT HEALTH

2:08:18 AND EDUCATION ACT FOR A NEW

2:08:21 DRUG I'M SORRY, NEW DIETARY

2:08:22 INGREDIENT NOTIFICATION.

2:08:24 SO IT'S SAFETY DATA THAT WOULD

2:08:26 NOT BE ACCESSED OR

2:08:28 TRADITIONALLY BE BE DONE BY

2:08:31 NIGHT.

2:08:31 I AND.

2:08:33 WHAT I'M SAYING THOUGH IS WHAT

2:08:35 YOU GAVE US HAS NOT BEEN USED

2:08:40 IN ANY WAY ON HUMANS UP TO THIS

2:08:43 POINT.

2:08:43 I'M JUST LOOKING AT WHAT YOU.

2:08:44 GATHER AND.

2:08:45 NOW SUPPLEMENT.

2:08:46 YEAH I.

2:08:47 THINK.

2:08:47 I'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT

2:08:48 LANGUAGE BECAUSE THERE CLEARLY

2:08:49 HAVE BEEN STUDIES IN HUMANS.

2:08:50 THAT I'M SORRY I KNOW THE

2:08:52 ANSWER TO THAT.

2:08:53 BUT COUNCILMAN CULPEPPER.

2:08:55 THROUGH THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE

2:08:57 ON DRUG ABUSE, THAT'S ALL THE

2:08:59 STUDIES THAT THEY WERE DOING.

2:09:00 THERE PROBABLY WERE OTHER

2:09:02 ADDITIONAL ONES THAT WE DON'T

2:09:04 HAVE BEFORE US TODAY AND I

2:09:07 WOULD BE HAPPY TO SEE THOSE IF

2:09:08 YOU COULD GET THEM SO YOU CAN

2:09:10 SUPPLEMENT THIS.

2:09:11 I'LL DO THAT BUT I'M JUST

2:09:12 LOOKING AT WHAT HE SUBMITTED TO

2:09:13 DO I THINK I THINK WHAT I DO

2:09:14 HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU

2:09:15 OKAY.

2:09:16 I THINK MR LOWE.

2:09:17 ACTUALLY HAS THE ANSWER TO YOUR

2:09:18 QUESTION.

2:09:18 HE WAS.

2:09:19 UH YEAH.

2:09:20 I WAS GOING TO SAY MATTHEW,

2:09:21 PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ANSWER.

2:09:22 THANK YOU.

2:09:23 GOT THEM.

2:09:24 AND SO.

2:09:24 THE DISTINCTION IS UM, IN THAT

2:09:26 UM, UH, A.

2:09:28 STUDY THEY.

2:09:29 ARE STUDYING ISOLATED

2:09:30 MICHIGAN.

2:09:31 SO WHAT THEY.

2:09:32 DO IS THEY EXTRACT.

2:09:33 OUT THE MICHIGAN FROM THE CRATE

2:09:35 AND.

2:09:35 LEAF IN ISOLATION SO IT DOESN'T

2:09:38 HAVE ANY OF THE OTHER ALKALOIDS

2:09:39 THAT ARE NATURAL CREATIVITY

2:09:41 WITHIN IT.

2:09:42 SO IT IS TRUE THAT MICHIGAN.

2:09:44 IN ITS ISOLATED FORM.

2:09:45 HAS NOT.

2:09:46 BEEN STUDIED IN HUMANS.

2:09:47 BEFORE BUT WHAT HAS BEEN.

2:09:49 STUDIED IN.

2:09:50 HUMANS IN 18 DIFFERENT HUMAN.

2:09:51 CLINICAL TRIALS.

2:09:53 IS NATURAL CREATIVITY WITH.

2:09:55 ALL THE 50 DIFFERENT ALKALOIDS.

2:09:57 THAT EXIST WITHIN THAT LEAF.

2:09:59 SO IT IS TRUE THAT MICHIGAN.

2:10:00 EVEN IN ISOLATION WHICH IS

2:10:02 WHAT THAT.

2:10:02 DRUG APPROVAL IS FOR HAS.

2:10:05 NOT BEEN STUDIED IN HUMANS.

2:10:07 THANK YOU, MR LAW.

2:10:10 UH, MR.

2:10:13 OF JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS

2:10:14 BECAUSE I THINK YOU WERE GOING

2:10:15 TO SUCH DETAIL.

2:10:16 JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU A COUPLE

2:10:19 QUESTIONS AND EIGHT SECONDS UH,

2:10:24 WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WHAT

2:10:26 INFORMATION SHOULD CONSUMERS BE

2:10:29 REQUIRED TO RECEIVE ABOUT THE

2:10:30 POTENCY, THE INGREDIENTS, THE

2:10:33 SERVING SIZES, INTERACTIONS OR

2:10:37 POTENTIAL DEPENDENCY AND WHAT

2:10:39 TRIAL RISKS?

2:10:41 SURE.

2:10:41 SO CAN I JUST HAVE A COUPLE

2:10:44 OF MINUTES TO ANSWER THAT SO.

2:10:46 AS SOON AS QUICKLY AS YOU OKAY.

2:10:48 SO THE US FOOD AND DRUG

2:10:49 ADMINISTRATION ACTUALLY

2:10:50 REGULATES BOTANICALS AS DIETARY

2:10:52 SUPPLEMENTS.

2:10:54 THERE IS A UH CONSIDERABLE

2:10:56 NUMBER OF REGULATIONS AND

2:10:58 GUIDANCE DOCUMENTS TO INDUSTRY

2:11:00 ON WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO TO

2:11:01 COMPLY WITH THE DIETARY

2:11:02 SUPPLEMENT HEALTH EDUCATION ACT

2:11:06 OF 1994 THAT REQUIRES A WHOLE

2:11:08 SLEW OF DIFFERENT THINGS, MUCH

2:11:10 OF WHICH ENDS UP ON THE

2:11:11 LABELING.

2:11:11 THERE HAS TO BE A SUPPLEMENT

2:11:13 FACTS PANEL.

2:11:14 THERE HAS TO BE INFORMATION

2:11:15 ABOUT THE SERVING SIZE, THE

2:11:17 AMOUNT OF PARTICULAR

2:11:19 INGREDIENTS.

2:11:20 SO IF YOU LOOK AT ANY PRODUCT

2:11:22 MADE BY WHAT I WOULD CALL A

2:11:24 LEGITIMATE MANUFACTURER

2:11:26 OF CRANIUM PRODUCTS, IF YOU

2:11:27 FLIP OVER THAT PRODUCT IT'LL

2:11:29 HAVE A SUPPLEMENT FACTS PANEL.

2:11:31 IT WILL TELL YOU HOW MUCH

2:11:32 MINIATURE GRINDING IS IN THE

2:11:34 PRODUCT, HOW MANY SERVINGS ARE

2:11:36 IN THE PACKAGE.

2:11:36 IT'LL GIVE YOU UH, ALL THE

2:11:39 NECESSARY WARNINGS INCLUDING UH

2:11:41 RISK ABOUT DEPENDENCY, UH, AND

2:11:44 OTHER WARNINGS ASSOCIATED WITH

2:11:47 THE USE.

2:11:47 KEEP OUT OF THE HANDS, UH,

2:11:49 REACH OF CHILDREN.

2:11:51 UM, UH, SOME, UH, WARNINGS

2:11:53 ABOUT.

2:11:54 NOT COMBINING KRATOM WITH OTHER

2:11:58 COMPOUNDS LIKE PRESCRIPTION

2:11:59 DRUGS AND ALCOHOL.

2:12:00 SO SO IF YOU'RE A LEGITIMATE

2:12:03 CREATIVE MANUFACTURER YOU'RE

2:12:04 ALSO FOLLOWING PART 111

2:12:08 OF TITLE 21 OF THE CFR, WHICH

2:12:10 REQUIRES GOOD MANUFACTURING

2:12:12 PRACTICES, WHICH REQUIRES A

2:12:13 NUMBER OF THINGS INCLUDING UH,

2:12:16 RELEASE TESTING AND THAT

2:12:18 RELEASE TESTING WOULD HAVE AN

2:12:20 ASSOCIATED UH CERTIFICATE

2:12:22 OF ANALYSIS WHICH WOULD COULD

2:12:24 TELL A CONSUMER THAT UH ABOUT

2:12:27 UH EVERYTHING IN THIS PRODUCT

2:12:28 THE AMOUNT OF THE BEGINNING

2:12:30 WHETHER THERE WAS UH ANY SEVEN

2:12:32 HYDROXY AT ALL IN THE PRODUCT

2:12:34 AND IF SO, UH, HOW MUCH TESTING

2:12:36 FOR HEAVY METALS TESTING FOR UM

2:12:40 CERTAIN PATHOGENS.

2:12:42 UH, SO ALL OF THAT TESTING

2:12:44 WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE.

2:12:45 LOTS OF COMPANIES NOW PROVIDE

2:12:47 THOSE CERTIFICATES OF ANALYSIS

2:12:50 UH, EITHER AT REQUEST OR

2:12:52 PROACTIVELY THROUGH A QR

2:12:54 CODE ON A PRODUCT OR BY SOME

2:12:56 OTHER MEANS.

2:12:57 SO UH, THERE IS A WAY FOR

2:12:59 CONSUMERS TO KNOW THAT THE

2:13:01 PRODUCT THEY'RE TAKING HAS

2:13:04 COMPLIED WITH THE FDA'S GOOD

2:13:05 MANUFACTURING PRACTICES.

2:13:07 IT'S GONE THROUGH UM, UH, THE

2:13:10 REQUISITE TESTING THAT THE FDA

2:13:12 REQUIRES AND THAT YOU COULD SEE

2:13:14 A CERTIFICATE OF ANALYSIS THAT

2:13:16 SHOWS THAT THE PRODUCT THAT YOU

2:13:17 HAVE, UH, CONTAINS ONLY THOSE

2:13:21 THINGS THAT ARE ALLOWED AND

2:13:22 DOESN'T CONTAIN ANY OF THE

2:13:23 THINGS THAT ARE.

2:13:24 DISCUSSED AND SHOULD THAT BE

2:13:25 REFLECTED IN THE ORDINANCE IN

2:13:27 THE UH THOSE ARE THE KIND

2:13:30 OF THINGS THAT CERTAINLY SHOULD

2:13:31 BE IN THE ORDINANCE REQUIRING

2:13:33 THEM TO BE LABELED.

2:13:34 YEAH.

2:13:35 IN MY TESTIMONY I NOTED THAT

2:13:36 WE SUPPORT LIKE THE AGE GATING

2:13:38 BUT WE ALSO SUPPORT UH,

2:13:41 CONSUMER PROTECTION ACTS THAT

2:13:43 HAVE TESTING REQUIREMENTS.

2:13:44 LABELING REQUIREMENTS AND WE'D

2:13:46 BE HAPPY TO WORK WITH UH, THE

2:13:48 THE CITY.

2:13:50 ON YOU KNOW, INCLUDING SOME

2:13:52 OF THOSE PROVISIONS IN THE

2:13:53 ORDINANCE IF YOU FEEL THAT.

2:13:55 COUNCIL MEMBER.

2:13:56 NO, I'M GOOD I'M GOOD.

2:13:58 THAT'S WHAT I WANTED HIM TO TO

2:13:59 TELL US.

2:14:00 COULD I JUST ADD THAT WE'RE

2:14:02 SYMPATHETIC TO WHAT MR MCCANN

2:14:04 IS FACING IN ENFORCEMENT?

2:14:05 UH, ONCE THE 700 BAND GETS PUT

2:14:08 INTO PLACE, THERE'S A CLEAR

2:14:10 DISTINCTION AND ALL THEY HAVE

2:14:11 TO DO IS CALL THE DEA.

2:14:12 BUT FOR THOSE NATURALLY

2:14:14 CREATING PRODUCTS THAT ARE

2:14:15 LEFT, THERE HAS TO BE GOOD

2:14:17 REGULATIONS THAT REQUIRE ALL

2:14:18 OF WHAT MR BRADSHAW JUST SAID

2:14:21 ABOVE ALL.

2:14:21 YES.

2:14:22 AND YOU CAN VERIFY THAT AND AND

2:14:24 WE CAN ASSIST WITH THAT IN

2:14:25 HELPING YOU DO THAT.

2:14:27 TO MAKE SURE IT'S REFLECTED IN

2:14:28 THE ORDINANCE.

2:14:29 WE GET COMPLAINTS FROM

2:14:30 CONSUMERS ALL THE TIME AND WE

2:14:32 WE SEND THEM TO THE FDA ABOUT

2:14:34 BAD PRODUCTS AND WE'RE GLAD TO

2:14:36 DO IT HERE FOR YOU AS WELL.

2:14:37 THANK YOU.

2:14:39 UM I DO JUST WANT TO FLAG IN

2:14:40 THE UM, PENDING STATE

2:14:41 LEGISLATION I THINK IT'S H4261

2:14:43 TYS BILL THERE IS A PROVISION

2:14:45 FOR LABELING SO IT'S SOMETHING

2:14:46 THAT WE COULD

2:14:47 COUNCILOR CULPEPER UM, JUST

2:14:48 FLAGGING THAT IN THE STATE'S

2:14:50 BILL THEY HAVE UH SOMETHING

2:14:51 ABOUT LABELING SO WE CAN USE

2:14:52 WHATEVER LANGUAGE THEY HAVE

2:14:54 THERE OR MIRROR IT AND MAKE IT

2:14:55 WORK FOR THE CITY.

2:14:58 UM, OKAY.

2:14:58 I HAVE ONE QUESTION AND THEN WE

2:15:00 CAN, UH, MAYBE GO TO A SECOND

2:15:01 ROUND OF FOLKS HAVE, UH, MORE

2:15:03 QUESTIONS BUT WOULD LIKE TO GET

2:15:04 TO PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

2:15:05 UM, YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT UH,

2:15:08 CCM UM OR MAC WHICH YOU PREFER

2:15:10 .

2:15:10 MAC.

2:15:11 MAC OKAY, MAC, YOU HAD TALKED

2:15:12 ABOUT UM, THE EFFECTS ON

2:15:15 RECEPTORS IN THE OPIOID LIKE,

2:15:16 UM, EFFECTS THAT IT HAS ON

2:15:18 PEOPLE IN THAT IT'S VERY

2:15:19 LIMITED.

2:15:19 IT'S NOT LIKE THE OPIOIDS THAT

2:15:21 WE KNOW OF, UM, AND CAUSE GREAT

2:15:24 HARM TO UM TO BROAD SWATHS

2:15:27 OF PEOPLE.

2:15:28 MY QUESTION IS AND I KNOW THAT

2:15:29 YOU'RE NOT A HEALTH EXPERT

2:15:30 MAYBE YOU ON THIS BUT, UH OR

2:15:33 YOU CAN REFER ME TO UH, STUDY

2:15:36 OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT DOES

2:15:39 THE THE PRODUCTS THAT WE'RE

2:15:41 TALKING ABOUT HERE ABOUT

2:15:42 REGULATING AND ALLOWING IN THE

2:15:43 CITY OF BOSTON SO THE LEAF

2:15:45 LOOSE LEAF UH, YOU KNOW, ALL

2:15:46 OF THAT THE NATURAL STUFF DOES

2:15:48 IT HAVE DIFFERENT EFFECTS ON

2:15:51 DIFFERENT POPULATIONS?

2:15:52 SO IS THE SAME DOSAGE RIGHT

2:15:54 WHERE IT SAY IT'S THE SAME

2:15:55 DOSAGE?

2:15:55 DOES IT HAVE A GREATER EFFECT

2:15:57 ON TEENS UM SENIORS.

2:16:00 ?

2:16:01 UH IF YOU CAN SPEAK TO THAT I

2:16:03 WOULD LOVE TO UNDERSTAND IT OR

2:16:04 IS IT THE SAME SORT OF EFFECT?

2:16:06 SO WHEN I WAS LEAVING THE HOUSE

2:16:07 TO COME HERE MY WIFE GAVE

2:16:09 ME ADVICE.

2:16:09 SHE SAID DON'T SAY ANYTHING

2:16:10 STUPID.

2:16:11 AND I'VE LOOKED BACK ON THE 49

2:16:13 YEARS WE'VE BEEN MARRIED AND I

2:16:14 CAN'T THINK OF A SINGLE

2:16:15 INSTANCE I SAID OR DID ANYTHING

2:16:16 STUPID.

2:16:17 UH, BUT HERE I AM IN WITH A

2:16:20 QUESTION THAT'S A LITTLE BIT

2:16:21 LOADED IN THE SENSE THAT

2:16:22 THERE'S GOOD SCIENCE OUT THERE

2:16:24 .

2:16:24 DOCTOR CHRIS MCCURDY AT THE

2:16:26 UNIVERSITY OF FLORIDA HAS

2:16:27 EXAMINED THIS ISSUE DIRECTLY.

2:16:28 THE TWO ISSUES YOU RAISE THEIR

2:16:30 SIGNIFICANT DOES THE UH

2:16:32 ACTIVITY AT THE MU OPIOID

2:16:34 RECEPTOR IS IT IS IT DIFFERENT

2:16:36 THAN 7OH AND IT IS BECAUSE

2:16:39 METROLOGY NINE IS IN THE FULL

2:16:41 PLANT MATERIAL WHEN IT GOES TO

2:16:43 THE MU OPIOID RECEPTORS IT

2:16:45 ACTUALLY COMPETES YOU HAVE

2:16:47 METROLOGY FIGHTING 70H WHICH

2:16:49 WHY IT'S H MODERATED EFFECT 7OH

2:16:52 PRODUCTS AS MR BRADSHAW

2:16:53 MENTIONED ARE COMPLETELY

2:16:55 HITTING THAT MU OPIOID RECEPTOR

2:16:57 WITHOUT ANY SIGNIFICANT

2:16:58 ACTIVITY BY MY ARGININE AND IT

2:17:01 IS A FULL BLOWN OPIOID AND WHEN

2:17:03 IT HITS THAT RECEPTOR YOU'RE

2:17:04 GONE BECAUSE IT'S HITTING THE

2:17:06 THE EUPHORIC HIGH.

2:17:07 AND THIS IS THE SIGNIFICANT

2:17:09 THING THAT THE SEVEN

2:17:10 MANUFACTURERS THE BAD ACTORS

2:17:12 DID THEY RECOGNIZE THAT USING

2:17:14 THE NATURAL GUT PROCESS WHEN

2:17:16 YOU INGEST NATURAL KRATOM AND

2:17:18 IT DOES PRODUCE A LITTLE BIT

2:17:19 OF 70H THEY RECOGNIZE THAT'S

2:17:21 NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.

2:17:22 LET'S DO A PILL AND.

2:17:24 SUBLINGUAL TABLETS.

2:17:25 SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEA.

2:17:27 SCHEDULING ORDER IT.

2:17:28 SAYS THAT THAT THE MAJORITY

2:17:30 OF 7 OR 8 PRODUCTS.

2:17:31 NOW ARE GOING RIGHT TO.

2:17:33 CROSSING THE BLOOD BRAIN

2:17:34 BARRIER.

2:17:35 THEY HIT YOUR MU UP YOUR

2:17:36 RECEPTORS IMMEDIATELY NOT THE

2:17:38 GUT AND YOU ARE NOW ADDICTED

2:17:40 WITHIN A COUPLE OF DAYS OR

2:17:41 WEEKS.

2:17:42 THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE.

2:17:43 BETWEEN THE TWO.

2:17:44 BECAUSE WITH IN.

2:17:46 THE PROGENY A.

2:17:46 NATURAL PRODUCT.

2:17:47 THE PREDOMINANT ALKALOID IS

2:17:49 METROLOGY.

2:17:49 NAME WITH THOSE.

2:17:50 OTHER 50 PLUS ALKALOIDS THAT

2:17:52 ARE WORKING ON IT WITH 70H FLIP

2:17:54 THE CONTENT THE.

2:17:55 MAJORITY IS.

2:17:56 70H AND THAT'S IT'S HITTING.

2:17:58 YOUR LIVER LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN

2:17:59 AND FIGHTING IT.

2:18:01 BUT THAT'S WHY THEY GO TO THE.

2:18:02 SUBLINGUAL TABLETS.

2:18:03 AND THE CHEWABLE TABLETS TO GET

2:18:04 BYPASS ALL OF THAT AND GET YOU

2:18:06 HOOKED QUICKLY.

2:18:08 IT THANK.

2:18:08 YOU AND I'LL SEND YOU THE

2:18:09 STUDY ON THAT.

2:18:10 YEAH PLEASE DO.

2:18:11 UM BUT I GUESS I'M NOT I DON'T

2:18:12 KNOW IF YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION.

2:18:13 SORRY.

2:18:14 I MAYBE JUST NOT UNDERSTANDING

2:18:16 DO YOU IS IT A DIFFERENT

2:18:18 REGARDLESS IF WE REGULATED OR

2:18:19 NOT?

2:18:21 UM IS IT IS THE NATURAL STUFF

2:18:24 DOES HAVE A DIFFERENT EFFECT ON

2:18:25 ON DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

2:18:26 CERTAINLY FOR.

2:18:27 TEENS YOU DON'T WANT THEM

2:18:28 HAVING IT BECAUSE YOU'RE A

2:18:30 DEVELOPING BRAIN.

2:18:32 UH WE DON'T HAVE SAFETY.

2:18:33 DATA.

2:18:34 ON THAT.

2:18:34 WE DON'T WANT THEM TO.

2:18:35 HAVE ACCESS TO IT.

2:18:36 IT IS A DIFFERENT.

2:18:37 REACTION THAT THEY'RE HAVING.

2:18:38 HAVING THE GOOD.

2:18:39 NEWS IS THAT NATURAL TASTES

2:18:42 TERRIBLE.

2:18:42 IT IS NOT APPEALING TO

2:18:43 CHILDREN.

2:18:44 AND THAT'S WHY THE SEVEN

2:18:45 PEOPLE.

2:18:46 HAVE GONE TO ALL THESE

2:18:47 CRAZY, UH, FORMULATIONS TO MAKE

2:18:49 THEM ATTRACTIVE IN.

2:18:49 THEIR PACKAGING AND THEIR

2:18:51 EFFECTS.

2:18:52 NATURAL KRATOM DOES NOT APPEAL

2:18:53 TO CHILDREN BUT IT NEEDS TO BE

2:18:55 REGULATED WHICH IS.

2:18:56 THE AGE GATING.

2:18:56 THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT DEPENDING

2:19:00 ON SERVING SIZE.

2:19:01 IF YOU LOOK AT THE STUDIES THAT

2:19:02 HAVE BEEN DONE THEY'RE FUNDED.

2:19:04 BY NIDA THE THERE'S A THIRD

2:19:06 OF KRATOM.

2:19:06 CONSUMERS THAT.

2:19:07 USE IT.

2:19:08 AS A REPLACEMENT FOR A CUP

2:19:09 OF COFFEE BECAUSE IT GIVES THEM

2:19:10 AN.

2:19:10 ENERGY BOOST AND.

2:19:11 INCREASE FOCUS AND.

2:19:13 THEN AT A HIGHER.

2:19:14 SERVING SIZE PEOPLE ARE USING

2:19:15 IT TO FIGHT OFF FEELINGS

2:19:17 OF ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION.

2:19:17 AND THEN THAT THIRD CATEGORY

2:19:19 WHICH GETS THE MOST ATTENTION

2:19:21 HIGHER SERVING SIZE PEOPLE.

2:19:23 MANAGING ACUTE AND CHRONIC PAIN

2:19:25 AND A.

2:19:25 SUBSET OF THAT ARE THOSE.

2:19:27 PEOPLE THAT.

2:19:28 ARE.

2:19:28 USING IT TO GET OFF OPIOIDS.

2:19:29 THAT'S WHY THE NIH.

2:19:31 STUDY IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT

2:19:32 TO SEE IF.

2:19:34 THERE IS AN ACTUAL

2:19:35 PHARMACEUTICAL GRADE PRODUCT.

2:19:36 THAT THEY CAN.

2:19:37 THEN GO THROUGH THE NDA

2:19:39 PROCESS.

2:19:39 HERE WE SEE NATURAL CREAM.

2:19:42 HELPING PEOPLE EVERY DAY AND.

2:19:44 THE DISTINCTION IS THE

2:19:44 SERVING SIZE, WHICH IS.

2:19:46 WHY LABELING IS SO IMPORTANT

2:19:47 THAT, UH, COUNCILMAN CULPEPPER

2:19:48 BROUGHT UP.

2:19:50 THANK YOU.

2:19:53 QUESTIONS QUESTIONS I JUST YEAH

2:19:55 ,I.

2:19:56 JUST HAVE ONE QUESTION.

2:19:57 UH, MADAM CHAIR, UM, SO NOT

2:20:00 TALKING ABOUT SYNTHETIC KRATOM

2:20:02 BUT WITH KRATOM ITSELF, IS IT

2:20:06 ABUSED IN ANY WAY IN TERMS

2:20:10 OF SOMEONE MIXING IT WITH ANY

2:20:14 OTHER TYPE OF DRUG OR USING IT

2:20:16 IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT DOES

2:20:18 BECOME DANGEROUS?

2:20:21 AND I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT HOW

2:20:23 UH, YOU KNOW, HOW IT'S

2:20:25 PRESCRIBED OR HOW IT'S SUPPOSED

2:20:26 TO BE USED, BUT IS THERE ANY

2:20:28 TYPE OF UM MISUSE OF.

2:20:31 IT OF.

2:20:32 OF KRATOM AND.

2:20:33 THAT DOES GET PEOPLE UM HI I

2:20:38 GUESS.

2:20:39 YES.

2:20:40 I THINK IT'S BEEN.

2:20:41 IDENTIFIED BY THE.

2:20:42 NATIONAL INSTITUTE.

2:20:43 ON.

2:20:43 DRUG ABUSE BY.

2:20:44 HHS AND FDA THAT THERE ARE

2:20:46 PEOPLE THAT ARE.

2:20:47 USING KRATOM ALONG WITH.

2:20:49 THESE OTHER SUBSTANCES WHERE WE

2:20:51 THINK.

2:20:52 THAT THEY.

2:20:52 SAY.

2:20:52 OH, I CAN TAKE I CAN.

2:20:54 TAKE HEROIN BUT IF I TAKE.

2:20:55 KRATOM AT THE SAME TIME.

2:20:57 IT CAN HELP ME REDUCE THOSE

2:20:58 EFFECTS.

2:20:58 AND THEY END UP DYING BECAUSE

2:21:00 OF AN.

2:21:00 OVERDOSE OF HEROIN AND BECAUSE

2:21:03 PROGENY.

2:21:03 IS PRESENT SO CAN PEOPLE ABUSE

2:21:05 IT?

2:21:06 OF COURSE.

2:21:06 UH, DOCTOR VOLKOW, THE HEAD

2:21:08 OF NIDA UH.

2:21:09 MADE AN INTERESTING.

2:21:10 COMMENT ABOUT THAT IN TERMS

2:21:12 OF ADDRESSING YOUR.

2:21:13 PARTICULAR QUESTION.

2:21:14 SHE SAID THAT THERE.

2:21:15 THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT

2:21:16 ARE USING IT AS A.

2:21:17 HARM REDUCTION TOOL BECAUSE

2:21:19 THEY'RE.

2:21:19 ABLE TO WEAN OFF OF MORE

2:21:21 DANGEROUS OPIOIDS.

2:21:22 BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE USE.

2:21:25 OF KRATOM IS IT USED TO GET.

2:21:27 A EUPHORIC HIGH?

2:21:28 NO.

2:21:28 IS IT USED TO.

2:21:29 DELIVER THE KIND OF.

2:21:30 EFFECT THAT.

2:21:31 HEROIN OR FENTANYL DOES?

2:21:32 NO.

2:21:32 THEY JUST TAKE IT BECAUSE

2:21:34 THEY ARE DRUG.

2:21:34 SEEKERS AND.

2:21:35 THERE'S A CERTAIN.

2:21:37 CLASSIFICATION OF.

2:21:37 PEOPLE IN THIS DRUG SPACE

2:21:40 WHO.

2:21:40 ABUSE DRUGS THAT.

2:21:42 HAVE AN.

2:21:42 ADDICTION PERSONALITY.

2:21:43 AND SHE SAID YOU'LL NEVER BE

2:21:45 ABLE TO.

2:21:45 TREAT THEM.

2:21:46 WITH MEDICINE.

2:21:47 IT HAS TO BE PSYCHOLOGICAL.

2:21:48 TREATMENT AS WELL.

2:21:49 SO THESE ARE DIFFICULT ISSUES.

2:21:51 BUT KRATOM ITSELF IS NOT THE.

2:21:53 YOU DON'T ADD.

2:21:54 SOMETHING TO KRATOM IT'S

2:21:55 USUALLY.

2:21:55 KRATOM BEING ADDED TO

2:21:57 SOMETHING.

2:21:58 ELSE THAT BECOMES AN

2:21:58 ADULTERATED PRODUCT.

2:21:59 THEY'RE TRYING TO GET OFF

2:22:00 OF WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING AND

2:22:03 THAT'S WHERE WE.

2:22:03 SEE THE ACTIVITY.

2:22:04 THANK YOU.

2:22:04 THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.

2:22:06 THANK YOU, COUNCILOR FLYNN.

2:22:08 UM THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING

2:22:09 HERE.

2:22:10 SORRY YOU THREE I APOLOGIZE

2:22:11 MATTHEW THANK YOU.

2:22:12 THANK YOU.

2:22:13 NEXT PLEASE.

2:22:14 HAVE.

2:22:14 THEY'LL BE.

2:22:15 THE IN PERSON NEXT TIME.

2:22:17 I HAVE A QUICK QUESTION,

2:22:18 MATTHEW.

2:22:18 I'M SORRY I CAN OUT MYSELF.

2:22:19 WHERE ARE YOU BASED OUT OF.

2:22:21 I'M ACTUALLY.

2:22:22 IN CAPE TOWN SOUTH AFRICA AT

2:22:23 THE MOMENT.

2:22:24 AND SO I SPENT MY TIME BETWEEN

2:22:26 SOUTH AFRICA AND THE US.

2:22:27 OKAY.

2:22:28 THANK YOU SO MUCH I

2:22:29 APPRECIATE YOU INDULGE ME IN

2:22:30 THAT QUESTION.

2:22:30 THANK YOU.

2:22:31 UM ALL RIGHT.

2:22:31 WE'LL GO TO PUBLIC TESTIMONY.

2:22:35 UH LET'S SEE SO I APOLOGIZE I

2:22:36 HAVE TO BRING UP MY LIST HERE.

2:22:43 WE HAVE A NUMBER OF FOLKS STILL

2:22:45 SIGNED UP.

2:22:46 UM, AND I THINK FOR THIS ROUND

2:22:49 IF I SEE YOUR NAME, JUST RAISE

2:22:50 YOUR HAND SO THAT IT'S EASY FOR

2:22:51 OUR CENTRAL STAFF TO FIND YOU.

2:22:53 WE HAVE MORGAN JOHNSON, SUSAN

2:22:58 ABAD.

2:23:00 UH, CHAD CORRAL IS STILL ON.

2:23:03 THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, CHAD.

2:23:04 AND FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

2:23:06 DANA.

2:23:09 A REASON I APOLOGIZE I SAID

2:23:11 YOUR NAME WRONG.

2:23:12 PLEASE CORRECT ME WHEN YOU GET

2:23:13 ON AND JEN.

2:23:14 UM, MERCIER.

2:23:16 SO WE'LL START WITH CHAD IF

2:23:19 HE'S STILL ON AND THEN GO TO

2:23:20 MORGAN AND THEN SUSAN.

2:23:25 OH, SORRY.

2:23:26 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

2:23:27 WE CAN HEAR YOU.

2:23:28 THANK YOU SO MUCH AND I

2:23:29 APPRECIATE YOU STILL BEING

2:23:30 HERE.

2:23:31 OH.

2:23:31 NO, IT'S MY FAULT.

2:23:32 I TRIED TO LOG ON EARLIER AND

2:23:35 MY INTERNET WENT OUT FOR A

2:23:36 LITTLE WHILE AND THEN YOU WENT

2:23:38 TO THE PANELISTS.

2:23:39 SO THAT WAS ON ME.

2:23:41 UH, MY NAME IS CHAD CORRAL.

2:23:43 UM, I'VE BEEN USING PLAIN LEAF

2:23:48 KRATOM.

2:23:49 UH, I CALL IT CROWD.

2:23:51 UM, I THINK THAT'S.

2:23:52 THAT'S WHAT WE CALLED.

2:23:53 IT BACK THEN.

2:23:54 UM, I'VE BEEN USING IT FOR 16

2:23:55 YEARS.

2:23:57 I ORIGINALLY FOUND IT BECAUSE I

2:24:00 HAD.

2:24:00 DEVELOPED.

2:24:01 UH, AN ADDICTION TO

2:24:02 PAINKILLERS AND I WAS HAVING A

2:24:05 LOT OF TROUBLE GETTING OFF

2:24:06 OF THEM.

2:24:06 AND IT'S WEIRD YOU NEVER THINK

2:24:08 THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE THE

2:24:09 KIND OF PERSON TO GET IN THAT

2:24:11 KIND OF TROUBLE, AND THEN IT

2:24:11 HAPPENS.

2:24:12 UM, AND SO.

2:24:15 I WAS LOOKING FOR WAYS TO

2:24:17 STOP.

2:24:17 AND I FOUND KRATOM AND IT WAS A

2:24:20 GODSEND TO ME.

2:24:21 IT DIDN'T GIVE ME ANY KIND

2:24:23 OF HIGH AT ALL.

2:24:25 UM.

2:24:26 I THINK A CUP OF COFFEE IS.

2:24:27 MORE INEBRIATED TO ME AND

2:24:29 KRATOM.

2:24:29 BUT WHAT IT DID DO WAS IT TOOK

2:24:32 AWAY THAT CRAVING THAT I.

2:24:33 HAD THAT.

2:24:34 I WANTED TO USE THOSE PILLS.

2:24:36 UM AND IT WORKED.

2:24:38 I USED IT FOR SIX MONTHS AND,

2:24:42 UM, I DIDN'T HAVE ANY CRAVINGS.

2:24:44 I STILL DON'T HAVE CRAVINGS.

2:24:45 UM, I THINK I'VE HAD SOME

2:24:48 HYDROCODONE IN MY CABINET FOR

2:24:49 LIKE TEN YEARS.

2:24:50 I HAVE I HAVE NO UM I HAVE NO

2:24:53 DESIRE TO USE THOSE.

2:24:54 UH, SO I HAD QUIT FOR ABOUT SIX

2:24:56 MONTHS.

2:24:56 IT DID ITS JOB.

2:24:57 I USE THEM TO GET OFF

2:24:58 OF HYDROCODONE.

2:24:59 UM, I STOPPED AT EVERYTHING WAS

2:25:00 COOL.

2:25:02 UH, ABOUT 6 TO 8 MONTHS LATER,

2:25:05 UM, I DEVELOPED SOME CHRONIC

2:25:07 AND KNEE PAIN WITH A CONDITION

2:25:10 THAT I HAVE.

2:25:11 AND THAT'S WHEN I GOT BACK ON

2:25:13 THE PROGRAM TO DEAL WITH THAT,

2:25:15 UH, KNEE PAIN, UM, NONSTEROIDAL

2:25:18 ANTI-INFLAMMATORY DRUGS.

2:25:19 ARE A LITTLE.

2:25:19 HARD ON MY ON MY STOMACH AND

2:25:21 AND FRANKLY, NOT ENOUGH.

2:25:22 SO I'VE BEEN USING NATURAL

2:25:25 PLAINLY KRATOM FOR, YOU KNOW,

2:25:27 THE LAST 15 YEARS UM, FOR MY

2:25:30 CHRONIC PAIN AND I KNOW A LOT

2:25:33 OF PEOPLE HAVE PROBABLY TOUCHED

2:25:34 ON THIS BUT WHEN I SAY PLAIN.

2:25:36 LEAF KRATOM THAT LITERALLY JUST

2:25:40 MEANS A.

2:25:40 LEAF OFF OF A.

2:25:42 TREE THAT IS DRIED GROUND.

2:25:45 UH AND THEN YOU TAKE.

2:25:47 IT UM UH AND YOU CAN PUT IT IN

2:25:50 CAPSULES OR AS.

2:25:51 A TEA.

2:25:52 CHAD THAT'S AND I THINK IT'S

2:25:53 IMPORTANT.

2:25:53 TO HAVE UM, 50 MORE SECONDS.

2:25:54 THANK YOU.

2:25:55 OKAY.

2:25:55 PERFECT.

2:25:56 UM, YEAH.

2:25:58 SO I THINK IT'S REALLY

2:25:59 IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND

2:26:00 THAT THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS.

2:26:02 LIKE SYNTHETIC KRATOM.

2:26:03 WHAT YOU HAVE ARE THESE

2:26:04 DERIVATIVES.

2:26:04 SO IT'S NOT LIKE LAB MADE

2:26:06 DIAMONDS VERSUS LIKE REAL

2:26:07 DIAMONDS.

2:26:08 THESE SYNTHETIC DERIVATIVES.

2:26:10 ARE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

2:26:11 BEAST THAT HAVE BEEN AMPED UP

2:26:12 AND SOUPED UP, UM, A LOT.

2:26:14 AND I REALLY JUST WANTED TO

2:26:15 MAKE I KNOW YOU'VE HEARD.

2:26:16 THIS BEFORE, BUT IT'S NOT.

2:26:18 LIKE SYNTHETIC KRATOM.

2:26:19 IT'S A SYNTHETIC DERIVATIVE

2:26:22 THAT'S.

2:26:22 BEEN LAB MADE.

2:26:23 UM, AND I HAVE OTHER STORIES

2:26:24 THAT I DON'T HAVE TIME TO TELL

2:26:25 YOU.

2:26:26 A FRIENDS WHO.

2:26:27 THOUGHT THEY WERE BUYING THAT

2:26:28 THOUGHT THEY WERE BUYING KRATOM

2:26:29 IN A SMOKE SHOP AND ENDED UP ON

2:26:30 702 AND THREE MONTHS LATER THEY

2:26:32 WERE IN REHAB.

2:26:33 SO THEY'RE TWO VERY DIFFERENT.

2:26:34 THINGS AND KRATOM HAS BEEN VERY

2:26:35 HELPFUL.

2:26:36 FOR ME.

2:26:36 UM, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE AND I

2:26:38 THINK UM I.

2:26:40 FULLY SUPPORT UM COMMON SENSE

2:26:42 REGULATIONS.

2:26:43 THANK YOU.

2:26:45 UH, NEXT WE'LL GO TO SUZANNE

2:26:46 AND THEN DANA.

2:26:59 SUZANNE IF YOU'RE ON.

2:27:10 HERE.

2:27:11 YES?

2:27:12 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

2:27:13 UH.

2:27:13 YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU.

2:27:14 THANK YOU SO MUCH.

2:27:15 HI.

2:27:16 MY NAME IS SUSAN SHEPHERD

2:27:18 AND THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING

2:27:19 ME TO SPEAK AND FOR WHAT YOU'RE

2:27:21 TRYING TO DO TO PROTECT PEOPLE.

2:27:23 UM, I'M JUST HERE TO SAY THAT

2:27:27 MY SON DIED FROM NATURAL WHOLLY

2:27:29 KRATOM POWDER.

2:27:31 NO SUN SET SYNTHETICS NOR SEMI

2:27:34 SYNTHETICS.

2:27:34 HE DIED IN 2021 LONG BEFORE THE

2:27:37 SEMI SYNTHETICS HIT THE MARKET

2:27:39 IN LATE 2023.

2:27:42 AND I'VE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE

2:27:45 COME UP TO ME.

2:27:47 I HAD 10 MILLION VIEWS ON MY

2:27:49 SOCIAL MEDIA AND SAID THAT

2:27:50 THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS HAVE DIED

2:27:52 FROM KRATOM AS WELL AND THIS

2:27:54 WAS LONG BEFORE THE SEMI

2:27:56 SYNTHETICS.

2:27:57 SO YES, PEOPLE ARE DYING AT A

2:27:59 FASTER RATE BECAUSE OF THE

2:28:01 SEMI-SYNTHETIC AND THE

2:28:02 SYNTHETICS BUT THE THE MAIN

2:28:04 THING IS IS KRATOM IS IS THE

2:28:08 NATURAL INGREDIENT TO MAKE

2:28:10 SEMI-SYNTHETIC WITHOUT THAT

2:28:12 THEY WON'T EXIST.

2:28:14 UM AND I'M JUST ASKING YOU TO

2:28:16 BAN ALL OF KRATOM.

2:28:17 THANK YOU.

2:28:20 THANK YOU SUSAN FOR YOUR

2:28:21 TESTIMONY AND I'M SORRY FOR

2:28:22 YOUR LOSS.

2:28:23 THANK YOU.

2:28:24 UM, DANA.

2:28:44 UH, DANA, YOU NEED TO ACCEPT

2:28:46 PANELIST PROMOTION.

2:28:48 OH, THERE WE GO.

2:28:48 WE CAN HEAR HIM.

2:28:49 OKAY.

2:28:50 ALL RIGHT.

2:28:50 SORRY ABOUT THAT.

2:28:53 UM.

2:28:56 OKAY.

2:28:56 UH, THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING

2:28:58 ME TO SPEAK TODAY.

2:29:00 MY NAME IS DANA ABERDEEN AND

2:29:02 I'M A CHRONIC PAIN PATIENT WHO

2:29:03 HAS LIVED WITH SEVERE PAIN FOR

2:29:05 25 YEARS.

2:29:06 UM, MY PAIN BEGAN AFTER A CAR

2:29:09 ACCIDENT IN 2002.

2:29:11 FIVE YEARS LATER I HAD SPINE

2:29:12 SURGERY.

2:29:13 SIX MONTHS AFTER THAT I WAS

2:29:14 REAR ENDED AGAIN.

2:29:15 THE SECOND ACCIDENT ENDED MY

2:29:17 CAREER AS A REGISTERED NURSE

2:29:18 AND COMPLETELY CHANGED MY LIFE.

2:29:20 I'VE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH

2:29:22 DEGENERATIVE DISEASE AND

2:29:23 RIDICULE APATHY ALONG WITH

2:29:24 OTHER SPINE ISSUES, COMPLEX

2:29:26 REGIONAL PAIN SYNDROME AND

2:29:29 IDIOPATHIC SMALL FIBER NOT

2:29:30 EVERYTHING.

2:29:30 FOR NEARLY 20 YEARS I WAS

2:29:32 TREATED BY PAIN MANAGEMENT.

2:29:33 I TRIED COUNTLESS MEDICATIONS,

2:29:35 INJECTIONS, PROCEDURES,

2:29:36 PHYSICAL THERAPY, COUNTLESS

2:29:38 TESTS, TWO SPINAL CORD

2:29:39 STIMULATOR TRIALS AND OTHER

2:29:41 NONINVASIVE TREATMENTS.

2:29:43 FOR ABOUT 15 OF THE 20 YEARS I

2:29:45 WAS IN PAIN MANAGEMENT, I WAS

2:29:47 TAKING 300 MILES

2:29:49 OF PRESCRIPTION OPIOIDS EVERY

2:29:50 DAY ALONG WITH MUSCLE RELAXERS,

2:29:52 HIGH DOSE GABAPENTIN HIGH DOSE

2:29:54 IBUPROFEN THOSE MEDICATIONS DID

2:29:57 HELP MY PAIN BUT THEY ALSO LEFT

2:29:58 ME WITH PROFOUND FATIGUE AND

2:30:00 BRAIN FOG.

2:30:01 I WAS PREDOMINANTLY BEDBOUND

2:30:02 AND I EXPERIENCED SERIOUS

2:30:04 GASTROINTESTINAL PROBLEMS DUE

2:30:05 TO MEDICATION SIDE EFFECTS THAT

2:30:07 RESULTED IN MULTIPLE

2:30:09 HOSPITALIZATIONS.

2:30:10 I ALSO LIVED WITH THE CONSTANT

2:30:11 BURDEN OF MAINTAINING ACCESS TO

2:30:12 CONTROLLED MEDICATION.

2:30:14 SIX YEARS AGO, UNDER THE

2:30:16 GUIDANCE OF MY PAIN MANAGEMENT

2:30:17 PHYSICIAN, I TRANSITIONED TO

2:30:18 NATURAL RELIEF KRATOM.

2:30:20 KRATOM DID NOT HEAR MY PAIN.

2:30:22 IT DOES NOT CONTROL MY PAIN AS

2:30:24 WELL AS PRESCRIPTION OPIOIDS

2:30:25 DID I STILL HURT EVERY DAY BUT

2:30:28 I'M AWAKE.

2:30:29 I'M MORE FUNCTIONAL.

2:30:30 I CAN DRIVE MY DAUGHTER TO

2:30:32 APPOINTMENTS, TAKE HER PLACES

2:30:33 AND BE PRESENT FOR HER LIFE.

2:30:35 I WAS EVEN ABLE TO TAKE HER TO

2:30:37 A K-POP CONCERT NOT THAT LONG

2:30:38 AGO, WHICH IS SOMETHING I WOULD

2:30:40 NEVER HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HAVE

2:30:41 DONE WHILE I WAS ON ALL OF THE

2:30:45 MEDICATIONS THAT I WAS ON

2:30:46 PREVIOUSLY.

2:30:47 I CAN ACTUALLY PARTICIPATE IN

2:30:49 MY OWN LIFE AGAIN.

2:30:50 THIS IS WHY THE DISTINCTION IN

2:30:52 THIS ORDINANCE MATTERS TO ME.

2:30:54 I UNDERSTAND THE CONCERNS

2:30:55 SURROUNDING CONCENTRATED AND

2:30:56 SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS INCLUDING

2:30:58 PRODUCTS CONTAINING CONCENTRATE

2:31:00 AT 7 OR 8.

2:31:01 I BELIEVE THOSE CONCERNS

2:31:02 DESERVE TO BE ADDRESSED, BUT

2:31:04 PLEASE DO NOT ASSUME THAT

2:31:05 NATURALLY OCCURRING THEM IN

2:31:06 HIGHLY CONCENTRATED OR

2:31:07 SYNTHETIC PRODUCTS ARE THE SAME

2:31:09 THING THEY'RE FUNDAMENTALLY

2:31:10 DIFFERENT PRODUCTS.

2:31:12 I HUMBLY ASK THAT YOU PROTECT

2:31:13 PROTECT RESPONSIBLE ADULT

2:31:15 ACCESS TO TRADITIONAL NATURALLY

2:31:16 KRATOM WHILE ADDRESSING THE

2:31:18 PRODUCTS THAT PRESENT

2:31:19 LEGITIMATE SAFETY CONCERNS.

2:31:21 KRATOM DOES NOT FULLY TAKE MY

2:31:23 PAIN AWAY.

2:31:23 DANA THANK YOU BUT ABOUT TEN

2:31:25 MORE SECONDS I'M SORRY OKAY.

2:31:27 IT HELPS ME TO MANAGE IT TO A

2:31:28 FAIR DEGREE WHILE REMAINING

2:31:29 PRESENT AND ABLE TO FUNCTION

2:31:31 AND PARTICIPATE IN MY OWN LIFE

2:31:33 NATURALLY IF KRATOM GAVE ME MY

2:31:34 LIFE BACK AND I JUST WANTED TO

2:31:36 MENTION THAT UM THIS SO MANY

2:31:38 SYNTHETICS HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN

2:31:40 AROUND SINCE AT LEAST 2018.

2:31:42 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LETTING

2:31:44 ME SPEAK.

2:31:45 THANK YOU DANA.

2:31:46 UH, JEN MERCIER, YOU JUST NEED

2:31:50 TO ACCEPT THE PANEL'S

2:31:52 PROMOTION.

2:31:53 JEN.

2:32:01 OKAY, GREAT.

2:32:03 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

2:32:03 OKAY.

2:32:04 ABSOLUTELY.

2:32:04 JEN.

2:32:04 GO AHEAD.

2:32:05 YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES, PLEASE.

2:32:06 OKAY, GREAT.

2:32:06 THANK YOU.

2:32:07 UM, I WAS REALLY HOPING TO BE

2:32:09 THERE IN PERSON AND

2:32:10 UNFORTUNATELY COULDN'T MAKE IT.

2:32:11 SO I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY

2:32:13 TO SPEAK VIRTUALLY.

2:32:14 UM, MY NAME IS JEN MERCIER.

2:32:15 I'M A MOTHER, A BUSINESS OWNER,

2:32:17 A HOLISTIC MENTOR AND A

2:32:18 LONGTIME NATURAL MEDICINE AND

2:32:20 HEALTH FREEDOM ADVOCATE.

2:32:21 I'VE SPENT YEARS FOLLOWING THE

2:32:23 SCIENCE AROUND THIS PLANT AND

2:32:24 WORKING WITH THE LAWMAKERS HERE

2:32:26 IN NEW ENGLAND AND ACROSS THE

2:32:27 COUNTRY.

2:32:28 IN FACT, I WAS JUST IN

2:32:29 WASHINGTON DC LAST WEEK MEETING

2:32:30 WITH LEGISLATORS AND ADVOCATING

2:32:32 FOR FEDERAL CONSUMER

2:32:34 PROTECTIONS.

2:32:35 UM, I THINK IT'S WORTH NOTING

2:32:36 WHILE I WAS THERE I VISITED THE

2:32:38 UNITED STATES BOTANIC GARDEN

2:32:39 AND SAW A LIVING KRATOM TREE IN

2:32:41 THE MEDICINAL PLANT COLLECTION

2:32:43 EMPHASIS ON MEDICINAL I

2:32:45 REMEMBER THINKING HOW

2:32:46 INCREDIBLY IRONIC THAT WAS

2:32:48 CONSIDERING UM, MASSACHUSETTS

2:32:50 HAD JUST MADE IT A SCHEDULE ONE

2:32:53 I REALIZE THAT'S TEMPORARY AND

2:32:54 I WANT TO THANK YOU BECAUSE THE

2:32:56 ORDINANCE THAT YOU'RE WORKING

2:32:56 ON, UM, DISTINGUISHES BETWEEN

2:32:59 THE HIGHLY CONCENTRATED

2:33:01 SYNTHETICS AND THE COMPLETELY

2:33:02 UNRELATED, UM, DANGEROUS

2:33:04 PRODUCTS OUT THERE AND THE

2:33:05 WHOLE WHOLE LEAF NATURAL PLANT.

2:33:08 UM, I ABSOLUTELY SUPPORT

2:33:10 GETTING THE SYNTHETICS OFF THE

2:33:11 SHELVES.

2:33:12 THIS IS VERY PERSONAL FOR ME.

2:33:14 I'VE USED NATURAL LEAF KRATOM

2:33:15 BEFORE AFTER MY, UM, EMERGENCY

2:33:18 SURGERIES.

2:33:18 I DON'T UTILIZE IT NOW BECAUSE

2:33:20 I DON'T NEED TO.

2:33:21 I HONESTLY FIGHT FOR THIS

2:33:22 BECAUSE IT'S FOR THE PEOPLE I

2:33:24 LOVE.

2:33:25 MY HUSBAND USES IT RESPONSIBLY

2:33:26 AND HAS FOR YEARS HE SHOWED

2:33:27 HE'S ABLE TO SHOW UP FOR OUR

2:33:29 FAMILY BECAUSE OF THIS.

2:33:30 HE HAS CHRONIC LYME AND A BUNCH

2:33:31 OF OTHER DEBILITATING UM

2:33:34 DISEASES THAT HE NAVIGATES AND

2:33:35 ALSO FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND

2:33:37 THESE THESE ARE OUR NEIGHBORS.

2:33:38 THEY WORK, THEY RAISE FAMILIES

2:33:40 AND ESSENTIALLY OVERNIGHT

2:33:42 MASSACHUSETTS MADE THEM

2:33:43 CRIMINALS AND I ONCE THIS

2:33:46 TEMPORARY SCHEDULING GOES AWAY

2:33:49 I REALLY HOPE THAT YOU ARE THE

2:33:51 LEAD IN YOUR IN MASSACHUSETTS

2:33:53 AND DO THESE PROPER ORDINANCES

2:33:57 UM I DO THERE HAS BEEN SO MANY

2:33:59 SCIENTIFIC STUDIES YOU KNOW

2:34:01 NAIDA HAS DONE IT THERE'S JUST

2:34:03 THERE'S SO MUCH SCIENCE BACKING

2:34:04 THERE THEN AND THERE THEY ARE

2:34:07 HUMAN CLINICAL TRIALS THE FDA

2:34:09 DID AN ASCENDING DOSE STUDY

2:34:10 WHERE IT WAS FOUND THAT IT WAS

2:34:12 TOLERATED WELL AT ALL DOSES.

2:34:14 THERE WAS NO UM NEGATIVE SIDE.

2:34:16 EFFECT 15 SECONDS THANK YOU.

2:34:18 OKAY GREAT NO RESPIRATORY

2:34:19 DEPRESSION ETC. SO I JUST I

2:34:21 WANT TO THANK YOU AND I JUST

2:34:23 WANT UM AGAIN THANK YOU FOR

2:34:25 DOING SENSIBLE REGULATION.

2:34:26 YOU GUYS ARE GREAT.

2:34:27 THANK YOU SO MUCH JENNIFER.

2:34:29 UH UP NEXT IS DYLAN SMITH.

2:34:31 DYLAN.

2:34:32 YOU JUST NEED TO.

2:34:33 ACCEPT THE PANELIST PROMOTION.

2:34:34 YOU SHOULD SEE.

2:34:35 A POP UP ON YOUR SCREEN.

2:34:46 HI.

2:34:46 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

2:34:47 YEP.

2:34:48 GO AHEAD.

2:34:48 DYLAN, YOU HAVE TWO MINUTES.

2:34:49 GOOD AFTERNOON.

2:34:50 UH, MY NAME IS DYLAN.

2:34:51 I'M A FATHER AND AN ADVOCATE

2:34:53 FOR NATURAL HEALTH AND

2:34:54 MEDICINE.

2:34:55 IN 2018 I WAS DIAGNOSED WITH

2:34:57 NEURO BERLIOZ'S AN INFECTION

2:34:59 CAUSED BY THE BACTERIA

2:35:00 RESPONSIBLE.

2:35:01 FOR LYME.

2:35:01 DISEASE THAT AFFECTS.

2:35:02 THE BRAIN AND NERVOUS SYSTEM.

2:35:04 MY DAILY REALITY INCLUDED

2:35:05 CRIPPLING PAIN, FATIGUE,

2:35:07 ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, INSOMNIA

2:35:08 AND DIGESTIVE DISTRESS.

2:35:10 MY CONDITION BECAME SO SEVERE

2:35:12 THAT I WAS HOSPITALIZED FOR

2:35:13 OVER A MONTH AND I WAS PLACED

2:35:14 ON DISABILITY AND FOR SEVERAL

2:35:16 YEARS I WAS COMPLETELY UNABLE

2:35:17 TO SUPPORT MYSELF.

2:35:18 I HAVE RECENTLY RETURNED TO

2:35:20 WORK SOMETHING MOST DISABLED

2:35:22 PEOPLE NEVER DO IN LARGE PART

2:35:23 BECAUSE OF CREIGHTON'S ROLE IN

2:35:25 HELPING MANAGE MY COMPLEX

2:35:26 HEALTH ISSUES.

2:35:27 THIS HAS ALLOWED ME TO

2:35:28 CONTRIBUTE TO MY FAMILY AND MY

2:35:30 COMMUNITY AGAIN IN 2016 I

2:35:32 ENTERED RECOVERY FROM ALCOHOL

2:35:33 AND PRESCRIPTION PILLS THAT I

2:35:34 WAS BEING PRESCRIBED WITH A

2:35:36 BACKGROUND IN ADDICTION, I'M

2:35:37 ACUTELY AWARE OF WHEN SOMETHING

2:35:39 PLAYS A MEDICINAL ROLE IN MY

2:35:40 LIFE AND WHEN SOMETHING IS

2:35:43 DESTRUCTIVE.

2:35:43 IN MY 15 YEARS OF TREATMENT, NO

2:35:45 OTHER SUBSTANCE HAS EVER BEEN

2:35:46 AS MEDICINAL OR HELPFUL AS

2:35:48 NATURAL KRATOM LEAF.

2:35:49 IT SUPPORTS MY RECOVERY PROCESS

2:35:50 WITHOUT MAKING ME FEEL

2:35:52 INTOXICATED OR INEBRIATED

2:35:53 SOMETHING THAT IS EXTREMELY

2:35:54 IMPORTANT TO ME AND MY FAMILY

2:35:56 BY LONG LOST ACCESS TO NATURAL

2:35:57 LEAF KRATOM POWDER, IT WOULD

2:36:00 SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECT MY ABILITY

2:36:01 TO BE THE FATHER AND COMMUNITY

2:36:02 MEMBER THAT I AM TODAY.

2:36:04 IT WOULD TAKE AWAY THE SINGLE

2:36:05 MOST EFFECTIVE TOOL THAT I HAVE

2:36:06 FOR MANAGING MANAGING MY

2:36:08 PHYSICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH.

2:36:10 REVELATION 22 TWO SAYS IN THE

2:36:12 MIDST OF THE STREET OF IT AND

2:36:14 ON EITHER SIDE OF THE RIVER WAS

2:36:15 THERE THE TREE OF LIFE WHICH

2:36:16 BARE 12 MANNER OF FRUITS AND

2:36:18 YIELDED HER FRUIT EVERY MONTH.

2:36:19 AND THE LEAVES OF THE TREE WERE

2:36:21 FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS

2:36:22 .

2:36:22 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME

2:36:24 AND I REALLY THINK YOU GUYS

2:36:25 HAVE GOTTEN IT RIGHT HERE.

2:36:27 UM, NOBODY REALLY WANTS THESE

2:36:28 NATURAL LEAVES.

2:36:29 SAVES LIVES.

2:36:30 THANK YOU.

2:36:31 THANK YOU DYLAN.

2:36:33 NEXT UP WE HAVE HOLLY TROUVILLE

2:36:37 AS STEPHANIE.

2:36:38 UM, TO KLAUS AND THEN ADAM.

2:36:54 IT'S HOLLY WITH US.

2:36:59 I'M HERE.

2:36:59 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

2:37:00 WE CAN HEAR YOU.

2:37:02 OKAY.

2:37:02 THANK YOU.

2:37:04 UM, MY NAME IS HOLLY TROUVILLE

2:37:06 AND, UM, MY SON DID DIE FROM A

2:37:09 TRAGEDY AND TOXICITY.

2:37:11 UM, COUNCILMAN FITZGERALD, I

2:37:13 JUST WANTED TO CORRECT A COUPLE

2:37:14 OF THINGS YOU SAID.

2:37:15 UM, YOU DID SPEAK WITH, UM, THE

2:37:18 LOWELL MAYOR, BUT HE ACTUALLY

2:37:19 WANTED ALL CREATE AND BEING NOT

2:37:20 JUST SYNTHETIC AND HE SAID HE'D

2:37:22 BE HAPPY TO SPEAK WITH ANY

2:37:23 OF YOU ON THE COUNCIL ABOUT

2:37:24 THAT.

2:37:25 AND 17 TOWNS HAVE NOT DONE

2:37:28 SYNTHETIC IT'S HAVE BEEN ABOUT

2:37:29 FIVE AND 50 HAVE DONE A

2:37:30 COMPLETE BAN UH NATURAL AND

2:37:33 SYNTHETIC INCLUDING THE TOWNS

2:37:34 YOU SPOKE ABOUT.

2:37:35 MR FLYNN, REVERE, BRAINTREE AND

2:37:37 SAUGUS ARE ALL BANNED JUST IN

2:37:38 THE LAST THREE WEEKS.

2:37:40 BURLINGTON.

2:37:41 .

2:37:41 BRAINTREE.

2:37:42 AND TEWKSBURY BANNED AND THERE

2:37:43 ARE MANY MORE ON A DAILY BASIS.

2:37:45 UM, THE PEOPLE ON YOUR SECOND

2:37:47 PANEL ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE

2:37:49 AKA AND OR USERS OF KRATOM AND

2:37:51 I FEEL TO BE UNBIASED.

2:37:53 YOU WOULD HAVE HAD THE OTHER

2:37:54 SIDE ON THERE AS WELL.

2:37:56 UM WITH THEIR SCIENTIFIC

2:37:57 INFORMATION.

2:37:58 UM ARE YOU AWARE THAT THERE IS

2:38:01 A CONGRESSIONAL UH, LAUNCH BY

2:38:03 SENATOR WYDEN IN THE UNITED

2:38:05 STATES FINANCE COMMITTEE IN

2:38:06 AUGUST?

2:38:07 UM, WITH HUMAN UH, HOMELAND

2:38:10 SECURITY SECRETARY MARK MULLEN

2:38:13 AND SECRETARY KENNEDY DUE TO

2:38:14 THEIR TIES AND INVESTMENT INTO

2:38:17 NATURAL KRATOM.

2:38:17 FEEL FREE BOTANICS.

2:38:19 UM, AND THE OWNER JERRY ROSS.

2:38:21 UM, I ALSO LISTEN TO A LOT

2:38:23 OF THINGS AND I WONDER WHY

2:38:24 YOU'RE ALLOWING CONSUMERS AND

2:38:26 OR VENDORS TO DETERMINE DOSAGE

2:38:28 .

2:38:28 THE FDA HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH

2:38:29 DOSAGE.

2:38:30 YES, THEY ARE SAYING SYNTHETIC

2:38:32 IS MORE DANGEROUS.

2:38:33 THEY ARE NOT SAYING NATURAL

2:38:34 THAN IS SAFE.

2:38:35 IF THEY DID THEY WOULD BE

2:38:36 REGULATING IT AND THEY'RE NOT

2:38:38 REGULATING IT.

2:38:39 I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY OUR

2:38:41 CHILDREN'S DEATH CERTIFICATES

2:38:42 ARE BEING QUESTIONED BUT IF

2:38:43 SOMEBODY JUST SAYS KRATOM SAVED

2:38:45 THEIR LIFE THEN THEIR WORD IS

2:38:46 TAKEN ON IT.

2:38:47 I DON'T THINK YOU WILL EVER

2:38:48 FIND A DOCTOR THAT WILL SAY

2:38:50 THAT KRATOM HAS SAVED THEIR

2:38:52 PATIENT'S LIFE.

2:38:53 UM OR WILL TESTIFY ON THAT

2:38:54 CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW.

2:38:57 I ALSO KNOW THAT FOUR STATES

2:38:59 HAVE BANNED KRATOM IN THE LAST

2:39:00 FOUR MONTHS AND KANSAS JUST

2:39:02 CAME OUT WITH AN ARTICLE JUST

2:39:04 THREE DAYS AGO SAYING HOW THEY

2:39:06 HAVE HAD SUCH AN INCREASE IN

2:39:09 EMERGENCY ROOM VISITS AND

2:39:11 RECOVERY VISITS.

2:39:12 WELL IF KRATOM IS SO SAFE THEN

2:39:14 WHY WHY IS THIS OCCURRING?

2:39:17 UM BECAUSE IT WAS ALL FORMS.

2:39:19 UM, I THINK IT'S EASY TO SAY

2:39:20 THAT IT'S JUST SYNTHETIC THAT'S

2:39:21 BEING BANNED.

2:39:22 I MEAN, THAT'S BEING DANGEROUS,

2:39:23 BUT IT IS ALL KRATOM.

2:39:25 UM, AND I FEEL THAT YOU SHOULD

2:39:27 HAVE SPOKEN WITH BOTH SIDES

2:39:29 OF THERE SHOULD BE UM THERE ARE

2:39:31 DOCTORS IN MASSACHUSETTS.

2:39:32 HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO THE PEOPLE

2:39:34 THAT SENT YOU GUYS LETTERS?

2:39:35 THERE HAVE BEEN CHIEF OF POLICE

2:39:36 HAVE SENT LETTERS WANTING A

2:39:37 FULL BEING.

2:39:38 THERE HAVE BEEN BOARD OF HEALTH

2:39:40 MEMBERS THAT HAVE SENT YOU THAT

2:39:41 IS WANTING A FULL BAN.

2:39:42 WHY WOULD 50 BOARD OF HEALTH

2:39:44 MEMBERS BAN AND COMPLETELY

2:39:47 NATURAL AND SYNTHETIC?

2:39:48 IT'S NOT JUST BECAUSE IT'S

2:39:50 EASIER TO DO THEY HAVE BACK AND

2:39:51 THEY HAVE REASON.

2:39:52 AND HAVE YOU SPOKE WITH THOSE

2:39:53 50 INSTEAD OF THE FIVE THAT

2:39:55 HAVE BANNED FOR SYNTHETIC?

2:39:56 THOSE ARE QUESTIONS YOU SHOULD

2:39:57 BE LOOKING AT.

2:39:58 WHY DID THE GOVERNMENT BEING AT

2:39:59 ALL?

2:40:00 THOSE ARE QUESTIONS YOU SHOULD

2:40:01 BE LOOKING AT.

2:40:03 UM AND I WOULD BE HAPPY AS WELL

2:40:05 TO COME WITH SCIENTIFIC

2:40:07 INFORMATION TO SIT IN MEET AS

2:40:08 WELL.

2:40:08 I JUST FEEL YOU TRULY BEFORE

2:40:09 YOU MAKE A DECISION YOU NEED TO

2:40:11 TRULY TRULY LOOK AT EVERYTHING

2:40:13 .

2:40:15 UM IN ALL THESE STUDIES BECAUSE

2:40:16 THERE'S A LOT MORE OUT THERE.

2:40:18 UM, AND I JUST WANTED TO, UM,

2:40:21 SAY THAT AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR

2:40:23 TIME.

2:40:24 THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR

2:40:26 TESTIMONY, HOLLY.

2:40:27 UM, WE'RE DEEPLY SORRY FOR YOUR

2:40:28 LOSS.

2:40:29 UM, BUT THANK YOU FOR YOUR

2:40:30 ADVOCACY IN MEMORY OF YOUR SON.

2:40:31 JUST KNOW THAT WE ARE, UM WE WE

2:40:34 WELCOME YOUR PERSPECTIVE AND WE

2:40:35 WANT YOUR PERSPECTIVE INVOLVED

2:40:36 IN THE CONVERSATION.

2:40:37 SO I'LL WORK WITH THE LEAD

2:40:38 SPONSOR TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU

2:40:39 KNOW WHEN, UM, NEXT WORKING

2:40:40 SESSIONS ARE AND, UM, INVITE

2:40:43 YOU THERE SO WE CAN HAVE YOUR

2:40:44 PERSPECTIVE IN.

2:40:45 THOSE.

2:40:45 CONVERSATIONS AGAIN.

2:40:46 THANK YOU.

2:40:48 UM, NEXT UP WE HAVE

2:40:50 STEPHANIE AND THEN ADAM AND

2:40:53 GERALD.

2:41:03 I.

2:41:04 STEPHANIE TO CLOSE.

2:41:07 UM WE HAVE YOU HAVE?

2:41:09 I'M SORRY YOU HAVE TO STEP OUT

2:41:10 OF THE ROOM.

2:41:11 I'M HEARING SOME ECHO.

2:41:12 I WANTED.

2:41:13 TO.

2:41:13 DEFER THE TIME.

2:41:14 TO MY PARTNER THAT I CALLED ON

2:41:17 BEHALF OF HIS KRATOM, UM,

2:41:20 LAWSUIT HERE IN FRANKLIN

2:41:22 COUNTY.

2:41:24 UM, HE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK

2:41:26 ON HIS OWN EXPERIENCES AT THE

2:41:29 GREENFIELD BOARD OF HEALTH.

2:41:31 UM, HE WAS KICKED OUT OF THE

2:41:32 MEETING.

2:41:33 UM, AND THEY RESUMED THE

2:41:35 MEETING AND HE HAS A CURRENT

2:41:36 COMPLAINT WITH MCAD.

2:41:37 FOR ACCESS.

2:41:38 TO THAT MEETING.

2:41:40 SO, UM, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO

2:41:42 DEFER THE REST OF MY TIME TO

2:41:43 THE PEOPLE IT AFFECTS.

2:41:45 BUT, UM, THIS DOES AFFECT THE

2:41:47 FAMILIES AND THE CAREGIVERS

2:41:49 OF SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO ARE

2:41:51 CURRENTLY REGAINING THEIR LIVES

2:41:53 BECAUSE OF NATURAL KRATOM.

2:41:56 UM, OPIOID ADDICTION HAS RUINED

2:41:59 MANY LIVES AND I THINK THAT A

2:42:01 GOOD USE OF MAYBE SOME OF THOSE

2:42:02 OPIOID ABATEMENT SETTLEMENT

2:42:06 FUNDS WOULD BE HELPFUL IN IN

2:42:10 RESEARCHING HOW IT HELPS PEOPLE

2:42:13 WITH THE OPIOID USE DISORDER.

2:42:14 THANK YOU.

2:42:16 THANK YOU STEPHANIE.

2:42:21 HERE WE HAVE ADAM GERALD AND

2:42:25 THEN UM AN INDIVIDUAL WHO JUST

2:42:28 LISTED AS NEXT TESTIMONY.

2:42:32 HI.

2:42:33 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

2:42:33 WE CAN HEAR YOU.

2:42:35 GOOD AFTERNOON.

2:42:36 MY NAME IS ADAM.

2:42:37 I AM FROM DELAWARE.

2:42:38 I'M SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF ALL

2:42:41 OF THE CONSUMERS IN

2:42:42 MASSACHUSETTS THAT I SPEAK TO.

2:42:43 DAILY WHO.

2:42:44 WERE TURNED INTO CRIMINALS.

2:42:45 OVERNIGHT AND ARE AFRAID TO

2:42:47 SHOW THEIR FACES.

2:42:48 I WANT TO START BY MAKING IT

2:42:49 CLEAR THAT I DO SUPPORT THIS

2:42:51 ORDINANCE.

2:42:52 I SUPPORT THIS ACTION AGAINST

2:42:54 SYNTHETIC AND SEMI-SYNTHETIC

2:42:55 KRATOM RELATED PRODUCTS,

2:42:57 INCLUDING THE SEVEN PRODUCTS

2:42:59 THAT HAVE BECOME INCREASINGLY

2:43:01 COMMON IN THE MARKETPLACE.

2:43:02 THESE PRODUCTS SHOULD NOT BE

2:43:04 TREATED AS THOUGH THEY'RE THE

2:43:06 SAME THING AS TRADITIONAL

2:43:07 KRATOM LEAF.

2:43:08 THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ITSELF

2:43:09 IS NOW MAKING THAT DISTINCTION

2:43:10 .

2:43:11 THE DEA HAS ALREADY TEMPORARILY

2:43:13 PLACED THREE KRATOM RELATED

2:43:15 COMPOUNDS UH PSEUDO AND GM 15

2:43:17 AND UM GM 16 IN A SCHEDULE ONE.

2:43:19 THESE SUBSTANCES DO NOT

2:43:21 NATURALLY OCCUR IN THE CRATE

2:43:23 AND PLANT.

2:43:24 FEDERAL AGENCIES ARE ALSO

2:43:27 SEPARATELY ADDRESSING THE SEVEN

2:43:28 PRODUCTS WHILE SPECIFICALLY

2:43:30 STATING THAT THESE ACTIONS ARE

2:43:31 INTENDED TO TARGET CONCENTRATED

2:43:33 AND.

2:43:33 SYNTHETIC SEVEN PRODUCTS NOT.

2:43:36 THE.

2:43:36 NATURAL CREATE A.

2:43:37 LEAVE CONTAINING ONLY A

2:43:38 NATURALLY OCCURRING TRACE

2:43:39 AMOUNT OF SEVEN.

2:43:40 THAT DISTINCTION IS VERY

2:43:42 IMPORTANT AND IT'S ALSO

2:43:43 PERSONAL TO ME.

2:43:45 MY FATHER IN LAW BEGAN USING

2:43:46 TRADITIONAL KRATOM AFTER A

2:43:48 DOUBLE HIP REPLACEMENT.

2:43:49 I WATCHED HIS QUALITY OF LIFE

2:43:51 IMPROVED DRAMATICALLY.

2:43:52 I ALSO USE KRATOM.

2:43:53 I STRUGGLED WITH ADDICTION FOR

2:43:55 A GOOD PORTION OF MY LIFE.

2:43:56 I NOW HAVE OVER TEN YEARS CLEAN

2:43:57 THANKS TO KRATOM.

2:43:59 I WAS IN ALMOST EVERY CAR

2:44:00 ACCIDENT AND THAT ALWAYS SET

2:44:02 ME BACK UP TO ADDICTION BUT

2:44:03 THANKS TO KRATOM I WAS ABLE TO

2:44:05 AVOID IT.

2:44:06 PEOPLE LIKE US ARE NOT ASKING

2:44:09 MASSACHUSETTS TO IGNORE

2:44:10 LEGITIMATE CONCERNS, PROHIBIT

2:44:12 SYNTHETIC AND SEMI-SYNTHETIC

2:44:13 PRODUCTS.

2:44:14 ADDRESS THE DANGEROUS 7 OR 8

2:44:15 PRODUCTS THAT ARE CREATING

2:44:17 THESE CONCERNS REQUIRE TESTING

2:44:19 ACCURATE LABELING AGE

2:44:21 RESTRICTIONS, ACCOUNTABILITY

2:44:22 FOR COMPANIES THAT PUT

2:44:23 CONSUMERS AT RISK BUT PLEASE

2:44:26 PRESERVE THE DISTINCTION

2:44:27 BETWEEN THOSE PRODUCTS AND A

2:44:29 TRADITIONAL BOTANICAL KRATOM.

2:44:30 IF THAT DISTINCTION CANNOT BE

2:44:32 WRITTEN CLEARLY OR ACCURATE

2:44:35 ACCURATELY, IT'S A LAW QUITE

2:44:36 YET.

2:44:37 I RESPECTFULLY ASK THAT YOU

2:44:38 WAIT UNTIL THE ONGOING FEDERAL

2:44:40 PROCESS AS WELL AS A STATE

2:44:41 PROCESS IS RESOLVED BEFORE

2:44:43 TAKING BROADER PERMANENT ACTION

2:44:45 .

2:44:45 UM.

2:44:46 THE LAST THING I WOULD LIKE

2:44:47 TO SAY IS THAT.

2:44:48 ALMOST ALL OF MY CHILDHOOD

2:44:50 FRIENDS THAT I GREW UP WITH

2:44:51 THEY'RE.

2:44:51 ALL THEY ALL PASSED AWAY.

2:44:53 FROM FENTANYL.

2:44:54 .

2:44:55 AND ONE.

2:44:57 OF THE BIGGEST REGRETS I

2:44:58 HAVE IN LIFE.

2:44:59 IS NOT GETTING KRATOM TO THEM

2:45:00 SOONER.

2:45:00 THANK YOU.

2:45:03 ADAM.

2:45:06 UH, NEXT WITH GERALD.

2:45:09 HI.

2:45:10 CAN YOU.

2:45:10 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

2:45:11 WE CAN HEAR YOU.

2:45:12 YEAH.

2:45:13 OKAY.

2:45:14 UM.

2:45:14 YEAH.

2:45:15 I MEAN, WE JUST WANT TO, UM,

2:45:17 PROVIDE SOME.

2:45:18 FURTHER SCIENTIFIC, UH,

2:45:21 ELUCIDATION.

2:45:22 UH, MOST OF THAT.

2:45:23 SECOND PANEL HAD ALL OF THE

2:45:24 POINTS I WANTED TO, UM, SAY I

2:45:27 AM A.

2:45:27 TRAINED NEURO.

2:45:29 PHARMACOLOGIST AND THE

2:45:35 DISTINCTION UH, SCIENTIFICALLY

2:45:37 WITH THIS IS THAT 708 UM, THIS

2:45:42 WAS ONE POINT I DIDN'T HEAR

2:45:43 MENTIONED THE HUMAN BODY WILL

2:45:46 METABOLIZE.

2:45:47 KRATOM INTO VERY SMALL AMOUNTS

2:45:50 OF THAT FROM THE NATURAL LEAF.

2:45:52 BUT METABOLISM BEING WHAT IT

2:45:55 IS, IT'S REGULATED BY ENZYMES

2:45:57 AND IT'S A STEP BY STEP PROCESS

2:45:59 THAT GOES CAN ONLY GO AS FAST

2:46:01 AS IT CAN GO.

2:46:03 AND THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OR

2:46:05 ACTUALLY THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT

2:46:07 YOU.

2:46:07 CANNOT ACCUMULATE ENOUGH

2:46:10 OF THAT SEVEN OH AGE IN YOUR

2:46:13 BODY TO EVEN HAVE ACTIVITY AT

2:46:16 NEW OPIOID RECEPTORS, OPIOID

2:46:19 RECEPTORS, UM BY INGESTING

2:46:22 NORMAL AMOUNTS OF WHOLE LEAF

2:46:24 KRATOM IT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING

2:46:25 THAT CAN HAPPEN.

2:46:27 AND THE FACT THAT THE 708 IS

2:46:29 BEING SYNTHESIZED ARE HIGHLY

2:46:32 CONCENTRATED FROM THE PLANT.

2:46:33 YES, I DO LEND MY SUPPORT TO

2:46:37 BANNING THAT STUFF.

2:46:39 ABSOLUTELY BECAUSE THAT IS

2:46:41 KNOWN TO BE A VERY POTENT

2:46:43 OPIATE OPIOID ACTUALLY.

2:46:45 UM BUT AGAIN THAT DOES NOT

2:46:48 REFLECT A LITTLE HAPPENED UH

2:46:51 PHARMACOLOGICALLY THROUGH

2:46:53 INGESTING THE WHOLE LEAF

2:46:55 PRODUCT.

2:46:56 AND I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT

2:46:58 BECAUSE THE CONFUSION BETWEEN

2:47:01 THE NATURAL LEAF PRODUCTS AND

2:47:03 THESE SYNTHETICS AND THE FACT

2:47:05 THAT THEY SEEM TO BE BECOMING

2:47:08 LINKED TOGETHER IS ONE UH, IT

2:47:11 ONE PRODUCT OR ONE ENTITY.

2:47:14 UM, THAT IS THAT IS NOT.

2:47:18 TO THIS.

2:47:19 KIND OF.

2:47:29 OH, UM THANK YOU SO MUCH,

2:47:31 DOCTOR.

2:47:32 UH, YOU HAVE 15 MORE SECONDS IF

2:47:33 YOU WANT TO SUMMARIZE YOUR

2:47:34 POINTS.

2:47:42 OR YOU'VE YOU'VE BEEN PUT ON

2:47:43 MUTE.

2:47:43 WE CAN'T HEAR YOU.

2:47:49 OKAY, UM, HEARING NOTHING, WE

2:47:52 WILL MOVE TO THE NEXT PERSON.

2:47:53 THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY.

2:47:55 WE'LL GO TO UM.

2:47:58 SORRY.

2:47:58 NEXT TESTIMONY.

2:48:02 OKAY.

2:48:02 YES.

2:48:02 GOOD AFTERNOON.

2:48:03 CAN YOU HEAR ME?

2:48:04 YES, WE CAN HEAR YOU.

2:48:05 HI.

2:48:06 GOOD AFTERNOON.

2:48:06 MY NAME IS SHANNON AND I'M A

2:48:07 LIFELONG RESIDENT

2:48:08 OF MASSACHUSETTS.

2:48:09 I'M HERE TODAY TO SHARE MY

2:48:10 TESTIMONY REGARDING THE VITAL

2:48:11 ROLE NATALIE KRATOM HAS PLAYED

2:48:14 IN MY LIFE AND TO URGE YOU TO

2:48:15 CONSIDER REGULATION.

2:48:16 RATHER THAN.

2:48:17 A TOTAL.

2:48:17 BAN IN BOSTON.

2:48:18 I AM A HEALTH CARE WORKER AS

2:48:19 YOU KNOW SENIORS WE ARE THE

2:48:21 BACKBONE OF THE MEDICAL FIELD.

2:48:23 IN 2017 I SUFFERED FROM CHRONIC

2:48:25 LOWER BACK PAIN.

2:48:26 SO SEVERE IT LED.

2:48:27 TO COUNTLESS E.R. AND

2:48:28 DOCTOR'S VISITS AND MANY DAYS

2:48:29 OUT OF WORK.

2:48:30 FINDING NATURALLY CREATED THEM

2:48:31 HAS BEEN A TOTAL MIRACLE FOR

2:48:32 ME AND MANY OTHERS WHOM DEPEND

2:48:34 ON THIS NATURAL PLANT.

2:48:35 WE WOULD BE LEFT WITHOUT

2:48:37 OPTIONS OR FORCED TO TURN TO.

2:48:38 PRESCRIBE OPIOIDS NATURALLY

2:48:40 KRATOM IS NOT AN OPIOID

2:48:42 SYNTHETIC SEVEN WHICH IS IT'S

2:48:43 DANGEROUS, IT'S ADDICTIVE AND

2:48:45 SHOULD BE TOTALLY BANNED.

2:48:46 NATURAL KRATOM IS A PLANT THAT

2:48:48 PROVIDES PAIN RELIEF WITHOUT

2:48:48 THE RISK ASSOCIATED WITH

2:48:50 SYNTHETICS OR OPIOIDS LIKE

2:48:51 SEVEN A WEEK.

2:48:53 RECENTLY OUR NEIGHBOR AS YOU

2:48:54 KNOW RHODE ISLAND REVERSED

2:48:55 THEIR BAN FROM THEIR 2017 BAN

2:48:58 AND AS OF APRIL 1ST 2026 UM

2:49:01 AFTER SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH WAS

2:49:02 DONE, THE UN BANNED NATURAL

2:49:03 LEAF AND KEPT THE SYNTHETIC

2:49:05 SEVEN OVER 16 THE FDA ANNOUNCED

2:49:07 AT THE JULY 29TH, 2025 PRESS

2:49:09 CONFERENCE THAT THEY ARE NOT

2:49:10 INTERESTED IN SCHEDULING

2:49:11 NATURAL CREDIT ON LEAF BUT

2:49:13 RATHER BANNING SYNTHETIC LIKE

2:49:14 SEVEN A WEEK.

2:49:15 I ASK THAT YOU PLEASE TAKE MY

2:49:16 TESTIMONY INTO ACCOUNT AND THE

2:49:18 MANY OTHERS WHO REACHED OUT A

2:49:19 TOTAL BAN IN BOSTON ON NATURAL

2:49:22 LEAVE WOULD BE DEVASTATING.

2:49:23 TO OUR STATE.

2:49:24 AND MOST OF ALL IT WILL

2:49:25 AFFECT A WHOLE COUNTRY AND THE

2:49:26 MANY INDIVIDUALS THAT RELY ON

2:49:28 THIS NATURAL PLANT FOR THEIR

2:49:29 QUALITY.

2:49:29 OF LIFE.

2:49:30 I WANT TO TELL YOU A QUICK.

2:49:31 STORY I TOOK.

2:49:32 ON FULLY CARING FOR MY

2:49:33 ELDERLY MOM FOUR YEARS AGO.

2:49:35 MARK CALLED ME ONE NIGHT I

2:49:36 ANSWERED HI MOM SHE SAID SHE

2:49:38 AND I NEED YOU.

2:49:39 FROM THAT DAY ON I WAS BLESSED

2:49:41 TO SPEND.

2:49:43 THOSE FOUR PRECIOUS YEARS WAIT

2:49:45 UP UNTIL MOM TOOK HER LAST

2:49:46 BREATH A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.

2:49:48 IF IT WASN'T.

2:49:48 FOR NATURAL.

2:49:49 KRATOM I WOULDN'T BE ABLE

2:49:50 TO.

2:49:50 CARE FOR MOM.

2:49:51 THANK YOU CONSIDERING FOR

2:49:53 CONSIDERING.

2:49:53 A GOOD REGULATION ON NATURALLY

2:49:55 .

2:49:55 KRATOM IT BEING ALL SYNTHETICS

2:49:57 TO.

2:49:57 PROTECT OUR ACCESS TO NATURAL

2:49:59 PAIN RELIEF.

2:50:00 AND THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO

2:50:01 THE ONES WHO REACHED OUT AND

2:50:03 UNDERSTANDING THE DIFFERENCE.

2:50:04 BETWEEN NATURAL LEAF AND THE

2:50:05 SYNTHETICS.

2:50:06 THANK YOU SO MUCH.

2:50:08 THANK YOU SHANNON.

2:50:12 UM OKAY.

2:50:12 THE LAST TWO FOLKS THAT WE'RE

2:50:14 GOING TO HEAR FROM ARE RYAN

2:50:15 WHITNEY AND MELODY WOLFF.

2:50:29 HELLO?

2:50:29 YOU HEAR ME?

2:50:30 WE CAN.

2:50:31 HEAR YOU.

2:50:32 HI.

2:50:32 MY NAME IS RYAN WHITNEY.

2:50:33 I ACTUALLY HAVE, UM, A CASE IN

2:50:36 AGAINST THE GOVERNOR RIGHT NOW

2:50:37 ON THE NATURAL BAN.

2:50:38 I'M DOING IT PRO SE BY MYSELF

2:50:41 HERE IN FRANKLIN COUNTY.

2:50:42 UM, AND YOU KNOW, I REALLY

2:50:45 WOULD JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE SUCH

2:50:46 A SHORT TIME I COULD GIVE MY

2:50:48 STORY.

2:50:48 I'VE BEEN A DRUG ADDICT IS HELP

2:50:50 WITH MY PAIN.

2:50:50 IT HELPS WITH MY ANXIETY.

2:50:51 I COULD GIVE THAT.

2:50:52 BUT I REALLY LIKE FOR YOU GUYS

2:50:54 BECAUSE YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE

2:50:55 THE LEADERS IN THIS AREA TO PUT

2:50:57 ON YOUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS

2:50:58 AND LEGISLATOR IN BOSTON THAT

2:51:00 ARE SO CLOSE TO YOU.

2:51:00 I'M SO FAR OUT HERE IN

2:51:02 GREENFIELD AND I STILL MAKE THE

2:51:03 TRIP OUT, UM, TO TRY TO TALK TO

2:51:05 THESE PEOPLE, BUT I CAN'T GET

2:51:06 INTO AN OFFICE AT THE

2:51:07 STATEHOUSE AND IF I DO I'M JUST

2:51:09 TALKING TO A STAFFER SO

2:51:10 SOMEBODY THAT MAYBE YOU GUYS

2:51:11 HAVE A LITTLE MORE WEIGHT, UM,

2:51:13 AND CAN ADVOCATE FOR THIS BAN

2:51:16 TO STOP BECAUSE I'M HAVING A

2:51:18 VERY HARD TIME WITH THE COURT

2:51:19 CASE MYSELF.

2:51:19 I'M JUST A REGULAR GUY.

2:51:21 BUT I'VE BEEN TURNED INTO A

2:51:22 CRIMINAL NOW AND I HAVE TO GO

2:51:25 UP AGAINST MY GOVERNOR BY

2:51:26 MYSELF AGAINST THAT, YOU KNOW,

2:51:28 SEASONED ATTORNEYS AND I'M JUST

2:51:30 PUSHING FOR THE SCHEDULING TO

2:51:33 STOP BECAUSE EVEN IN THE TIME

2:51:35 WHEN WE'RE LOOKING TO MAKE

2:51:36 THESE REGULATORY BOARDS AND

2:51:37 STUFF LIKE THAT, YOU'VE HEARD

2:51:38 FROM PEOPLE ON THIS THAT HAVE

2:51:39 SAID THAT THEY'RE NOW

2:51:41 CRIMINALS.

2:51:41 IT'S PUT ME IN SO MUCH FEAR.

2:51:43 I'VE BEEN HAVING PANIC ATTACKS

2:51:45 .

2:51:46 I CAN'T DRIVE IN THE CAR

2:51:46 BECAUSE I'M SCARED IF I TRAVEL

2:51:48 TOO FAR AND I HAVE IT IN MY CAR

2:51:51 AND I GET PULLED OVER AND WITH

2:51:52 MY RECORD THEY WANT TO SEARCH

2:51:53 THE VEHICLE, THEY FIND THIS NOW

2:51:55 I'M IN A LEGAL SITUATION.

2:51:56 I HAVE A RECORD LIKE THERE'S A

2:51:58 LOT OF HARMS THAT COME WITH

2:51:59 JUST NOT EVEN FROM THE SIMPLE

2:52:01 FACT OF NOT HAVING THE

2:52:03 SUBSTANCE MEDICALLY AND

2:52:04 PHYSICALLY HOW I NEED IT BUT

2:52:06 JUST A FEAR OF ACTUALLY HAVING

2:52:08 IT.

2:52:10 AND IF YOU GUYS COULD PUSH TO A

2:52:12 FEW LEGISLATORS RIGHT THERE

2:52:13 NEXT DOOR TO YOU GUYS I'VE BEEN

2:52:15 TO BOTH YOU GUYS THIS PLACE IS

2:52:16 OUT THERE YOU'RE JUST NOT THAT

2:52:17 CLOSE TO AND IF YOU HAVE ANY

2:52:18 CONNECTIONS WITH THEM I

2:52:20 STRONGLY ENCOURAGE YOU AND I

2:52:22 BEG OF YOU TO, YOU KNOW, TALK

2:52:25 TO THE GOVERNOR AND TALK TO

2:52:26 THESE PEOPLE AND ASK THAT UM,

2:52:28 THEY JUST STOP THE SCHEDULING

2:52:29 BECAUSE SHE CAN DO ANYTHING.

2:52:31 THE GOVERNOR CAN DO ANYTHING

2:52:32 WITH THIS AND SHE CAN AT LEAST

2:52:34 STOP PEOPLE FROM BEING

2:52:35 CRIMINALS RIGHT NOW.

2:52:36 AND I WOULD APPRECIATE IF YOU

2:52:37 GUYS COULD DO THAT AND THANK

2:52:38 YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

2:52:40 THANK YOU.

2:52:42 OKAY.

2:52:43 UH, LAST BUT NOT LEAST WE HAVE

2:52:46 MELODY.

2:52:48 HEY, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

2:52:49 FOR HAVING ME.

2:52:50 UM, I'M A CHRONIC PAIN PATIENT.

2:52:52 AND HAVE BEEN ONE FOR ABOUT

2:52:54 OVER 20 YEARS.

2:52:55 THERE ARE 75 MILLION OF US IN

2:52:57 THE UNITED STATES.

2:52:59 AND, UM, I SPENT EIGHT OF THOSE

2:53:01 YEARS WITH A WALKER AND I'M A

2:53:04 WHEELCHAIR.

2:53:05 AND I KEEP HEARING THE WORDS

2:53:07 CAN I.

2:53:08 TEMPORARY BAN?

2:53:11 I REMEMBER BEING IN PAIN.

2:53:12 SO BADLY THAT I WANTED TO DIE

2:53:15 LITERALLY I WANTED TO DIE.

2:53:17 UM, AND IT HAPPENED MORE THAN

2:53:19 ONCE.

2:53:20 IT A TEMPORARY BAN TO A CHRONIC

2:53:23 PAIN.

2:53:24 PATIENT THAT IS BEDRIDDEN.

2:53:25 IT'S NOT TEMPORARY.

2:53:29 IT'S A LIFE.

2:53:30 IT'S HOPE.

2:53:31 IT'S A LIFETIME.

2:53:33 THERE ARE CHRONIC PAIN PATIENTS

2:53:36 THAT ARE IN THAT RIGHT NOW IN

2:53:38 YOUR STATE BECAUSE.

2:53:42 THEY CAN'T GET FREEDOM FOR FOR

2:53:45 NO OTHER REASON.

2:53:47 AND THEN I.

2:53:48 HEARD TONIGHT ABOUT A SALES VAN

2:53:51 A SALES VAN OFTEN HURTS, YOU

2:53:54 KNOW, THE MOST.

2:53:55 VULNERABLE AMONG.

2:53:57 US UM SOME OF WHOM DON'T HAVE

2:53:58 AN ADDRESS.

2:53:59 WE DON'T HAVE.

2:54:00 A DEVICE TO WHERE THEY CAN, UM.

2:54:03 SEND A PAYMENT.

2:54:04 THEY DON'T HAVE A BANK.

2:54:08 SO EVEN A SALES VAN.

2:54:10 WOULD BE TERRIBLE.

2:54:12 UM, THERE'S A SECOND.

2:54:14 THERE'S OTHER OPIOID CRISIS AND

2:54:15 NOBODY'S TALKING A LOT ABOUT WE

2:54:18 TALK ABOUT THE.

2:54:18 LIVES THAT WERE.

2:54:20 LOST OF.

2:54:21 THOSE AND THAT WILL BE OUR

2:54:22 CRISIS AND WE SHOULD.

2:54:24 NOBODY'S TALKING.

2:54:25 ABOUT THE LIVES.

2:54:27 AND THE.

2:54:27 ENTIRE FAMILIES.

2:54:29 BEING LOST TO UNDERTREATED.

2:54:32 CHRONIC PAIN.

2:54:33 AND KRATOM IS A LIFELINE OUT.

2:54:37 OF THAT.

2:54:38 SO PLEASE, AS THE GENTLEMAN

2:54:40 BEFORE ME SAID PLEASE TALK.

2:54:42 TO THE GOVERNOR.

2:54:44 I PROMISE YOU.

2:54:45 A YEAR IS NOT A YEAR TO A

2:54:47 CHRONIC PAIN PATIENT.

2:54:48 IT'S INSUFFERABLE.

2:54:51 TORTURE AND I HAVE LIVED IT SO

2:54:54 FOR EIGHT YEARS.

2:54:55 I LIVE THAT WAY.

2:54:57 AND I DON'T WANT ANY OF YOUR

2:54:59 RESIDENTS SUFFERING LIKE I DID.

2:55:02 SO THANK YOU.

2:55:03 SO MUCH FOR HAVING

2:55:04 ME TONIGHT.

2:55:05 THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY,

2:55:07 MELODY.

2:55:07 UM, WE HAVE JENNIFER GILLIS

2:55:08 THAT JUST CAME BACK IN.

2:55:09 SO WE'LL END WITH JENNIFER.

2:55:25 BUT THANK YOU.

2:55:26 SO MUCH.

2:55:27 FOR ALLOWING ME TO SPEAK.

2:55:28 I KNOW THERE HAS BEEN A LOT

2:55:30 OF COMMENTS.

2:55:30 I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE UP TOO

2:55:31 MUCH TIME.

2:55:32 UM.

2:55:33 I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME

2:55:34 WONDERFUL.

2:55:35 STORIES THAT YOU'VE HEARD.

2:55:36 AND TO BE HONEST.

2:55:37 I THINK MR BRADSHAW, MR HADDOW

2:55:39 AND MR LOW DID AN OUTSTANDING

2:55:41 JOB.

2:55:41 I LITERALLY COULDN'T LET ANY

2:55:42 OF THAT BETTER MYSELF.

2:55:43 PUBLIC SPEAKING REALLY ISN'T

2:55:45 STRONG POINT ANYWAY.

2:55:47 UM.

2:55:48 I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT MYSELF

2:55:49 AND SO MANY RELY ON FREEDOM FOR

2:55:51 A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE AND

2:55:53 AFTER LIVING WITH CHRONIC PAIN

2:55:55 FOR 20 YEARS IS THE ONLY THING

2:55:56 I CAN SAY THAT TRULY HAS GIVEN

2:55:59 ME A BETTER LIFE THAN WHAT I

2:56:00 WAS LIVING BEFORE I FOUND IT.

2:56:02 SINCE THESE.

2:56:03 SEVEN PRODUCTS HAVE BEEN THROWN

2:56:04 INTO THE MARKET IT'S DONE

2:56:05 NOTHING BUT CAUSED MASS

2:56:06 CONFUSION.

2:56:07 NOT.

2:56:07 WITH JUST CONSUMERS BUT WITH

2:56:08 LAWMAKERS.

2:56:09 AND WHEN.

2:56:10 THESE CRYING ON BANS HAPPEN

2:56:11 ,IT ONLY HURTS THESE PEOPLE

2:56:13 BECAUSE WE'RE ALL LEFT TO

2:56:14 SUFFER WITH NO OTHER PAIN

2:56:16 MANAGEMENT OPTIONS AVAILABLE AT

2:56:17 THE FAULT OF THE 708 INDUSTRY

2:56:20 BEING DISRUPTED IN THE WAY THAT

2:56:22 THEY HAVE.

2:56:22 I'VE ALSO ATTENDED ABOUT 50

2:56:25 MASSACHUSETTS LOCALITY HEARINGS

2:56:27 IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS OR SO

2:56:28 AND TIME AND TIME AGAIN THEY

2:56:30 DECIDED ON A FULL BAN BECAUSE

2:56:32 THEY FEEL LIKE THEY JUST DON'T

2:56:33 HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THEY'RE

2:56:36 WAITING FOR THE STATE TO TAKE

2:56:38 ACTION.

2:56:39 UM, SO FOR RIGHT NOW THE FULL

2:56:41 BAN IS HOW THEY VOTE IT.

2:56:42 THAT BEING SAID, GETTING RID

2:56:44 OF 708 PRODUCTS IS ABSOLUTELY

2:56:46 GOING TO PROTECT NOT JUST THE

2:56:47 CHILDREN BUT EVEN THE

2:56:48 RESPONSIBLE ADULTS 21 AND UP

2:56:50 FROM GETTING DUPED INTO THESE

2:56:51 PRODUCTS UNDER THE GUISE

2:56:53 OF BEING PREYED ON PRODUCTS.

2:56:54 SO I APPLAUD YOU AND YOUR

2:56:56 EFFORTS TO MAKE SURE 70708

2:56:58 PRODUCTS GET OFF THE SHELF AND

2:57:00 STAY OFF THE SHELF IN

2:57:01 MASSACHUSETTS.

2:57:01 THANK YOU SO MUCH.

2:57:04 THANK YOU SO MUCH, JENNIFER.

2:57:05 UM, I WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY

2:57:06 FOR THEIR TESTIMONY THAT'S BEEN

2:57:08 ROOTED IN LIVED EXPERIENCE.

2:57:09 UM, AND THAT HELPS CREATE

2:57:10 BETTER POLICY AT THE END OF THE

2:57:11 DAY.

2:57:12 SO I APPRECIATE EVERYONE'S

2:57:13 TIME.

2:57:14 UM, COUNCILOR FITZGERALD HAS

2:57:16 WAIVED HIS CLOSING REMARKS.

2:57:19 UH, RIGHT.

2:57:20 SO WE'RE GOING TO, UM, CLOSE

2:57:22 THIS OUT, BUT I WILL JUST, UM,

2:57:24 OUTLINE MAYBE NEXT STEPS WILL

2:57:26 DEFINITELY WORK IN SESSION.

2:57:27 UM, I STILL AM IN THE MINDSET

2:57:30 THAT WE DO A CONTINGENT

2:57:31 FRAMEWORK.

2:57:31 UM, SHOULD THE STATE, UH, MOVE

2:57:36 FORWARD WITH REGS OR THE

2:57:38 LAWSUIT IS RESOLVED?

2:57:40 UM, I THINK THERE'S STILL SOME

2:57:41 WORK TO DO BUT THERE'S A LOT

2:57:42 OF GOOD HERE AND UM, I DO WANT

2:57:45 TO INTEGRATE SOME OF THE VOICES

2:57:46 THAT WE'VE HEARD TOO FROM FOLKS

2:57:47 THAT, UH, ARE TRYING TO BE

2:57:48 AGREED ON.

2:57:49 UM, AND DEFINITELY JUST TO SEE

2:57:51 WHAT WHAT WE CAN DO BUT UM,

2:57:54 WITH THAT I'LL WRAP AND JUST

2:57:56 SAY THAT DOCKET UH OR THIS

2:57:59 HEARING ON DOCKET 1414 IS

2:58:01 ADJOURNED.

2:58:02 THANK YOU EVERYBODY.